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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Significant Update...

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Vico Martin said:
Any dates for Stages?
we can reserve a "Stage" before 2012?

thanks for the update,
Vico.
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Jannard said:
Of course.

Jim
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Louis Maddalena said:
would non-red owners be given an oppertunity to purchase an epic-x before the end of the year or do these prices only apply to those with stages?
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Jarred Land said:
Depends on demand, RED OWNERS get priority for delivery for the stages. The one exception to that is EPIC-M program, Non-RED owners can purchase an EPIC-M immediately.
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I'm confused by Stage 4. I thought in the Stage/Clarification post that it stated that Stage 4 included all non-Red One owners (that's me). If that's correct, it looks like from the above quotes that Jim is saying that everyone will have the ability to purchase an Epic-X at 2011 prices. I understand that Red One owners get priority on delivery. But am I correct in saying that everyone will have the opportunity to buy and Epic-X at the 2011 prices, regardless of when it delivers? Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Red!
 
D Fuller said:
I've been talking with Jacek at OptiTek, who made the very solid ProLock Nikon mount for R1. My understanding is that he sent you guys a prototype a few days ago for approval. I know everyone at Red must be slammed, but speedy approval of that mount would serve a lot of people until the Red Electronic version is ready.
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Not sure who you are taking to but that is completely false...
 
Ditto on the PL mount being a $2K paperweight,

As Gibby pointed out, for a large percentage of us, Pl lenses are not only a huge waste of money but actually a detriment in terms of size and weight.

That percentage will only get larger. Red (and to some extent video dslrs) has expanded the Pl lens market based on radically lowering the price of cameras and acquisition (ie no film expense) but it is still very finite. As epics become more accessible the percentage of non-cine shooters using them will go up dramatically simply because it is a Much larger market.
 
Michael Hastings said:
As far as lenses wider than 14mm - Except for possibly the new 12mm MP and maybe the 8mm UP (anyone checked?), virtually none of the "real" cinema lenses like the UPs, MPs, standards, supers, Cooke's, etc. etc. even COVER the 5K sensor. And the Zeiss Compact Primes are just converted still lenses (which is why they cover FF35), which bolsters the still lens argument.
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The 12mm Ultra Prime is a thing of beauty on the Epic. I used Greg M's 12mm UP on BIG SUR.

bigsurlowe7.jpg


I will soon be getting a Red Canon mount for the Epic and will give a full report on how it all works compared to UPs and MPs, etc. The Canon lenses I am most excited to try on the Epic are the 600mm f4 and the new 70-200mm II!
 
Jarred Land said:
Nikon mounts have a motor in the mount.. so that is a little more complicated... there is testing that goes on that is more hardware oriented and dependent. That is why we may offer a completely separate dumb mount for Nikon.
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Dumb Mounts will be fantastic, It is what we have right now with the R1 (nikon lenses with follow focus), no big deal.. My only concern is that we receive the EPIC-X before the dumb mount is released, therefore we woundn't able to use our Nikon lenses and running into very costly expenses renting PL mount optics until the any nikon mount is avaiable.
www.silverculture.net
 
If somebody has any concerns of the quality and usability of Canon L-series lenses, reading these posts should flush such concerns away. It seems the very same people who some years ago actively wrote to the Birger-thread are still --and now after much experience of using Canon lenses with R1-- very persistent in saying the Canon mount is their first, if not the only, priority. "One thousand screaming teenagers can't be wrong." :-)

The newest Canon lenses seem to be optically significantly better than the older ones. Still, I'm not saying the old one were bad at all, but if one puts the 800mm L or the 70-200mm f2.8 L II, one will already notice the better drawing on the R1 LCD. Especially, this becomes visible in 2K images. With little experience one can already tell very quickly which downrez 1080p images are originally from 4K and 2K files. But with those 2K shots taken with the 800mm or 70-200mm one starts already to hesitate. Another nice thing is, the image stabilzer of the new lenses is also pretty useful also in motion capture.
 
Allstar mentioned on the forum that he was looking for someone to provide Epic-M PL mount so he can make A-mount for Epic and that will accepts the PL, Nikon and other adaptors Allstar makes. Since the adaptors for the F-mount lets you adjust the back focus, I prefer using the A-mount to swap between PL and Nikon lenses. So for the Epic, I will do the same (if Allstar comes out with the A-mount for Epic) until RED comes out with the Electronic version.
 
David Battistella said:
Steve Gibby has suggested whether it might be possible to choose the mount you want the camera to ship with. As we all know the EPIC comes with a standard PL TItanium mount.


JIM RESPONDED IN this thread. While it might be nice to talk about the possiblities it makes sense to not encourage discussion around certain things when the question has been answered by Jim.

SO I have edited this original post.

1. SHIP EPIC M or X Cameras PL MOUNT

EPIC's will ship with a PL mount and NIKON and CANON as options.


2. CANON NIKON

CANON first, Nikon dumg to follow, Nikon Electronic next.


Cheers,
David
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Jannard said:
We'd love to make everyone happy but we are taking a beating in the meantime. We have tried to help our original customers by postponing the price increase until 2012. We lose by doing that. The price increase really needs to go into effect now. At some point we have to make this a business and can't keep losing money for the benefit of our customers. If this were any other company, we wouldn't even announce the Canon mount until all the cameras for Stage 2 and 3 had shipped (with PL mounts). I know exactly what makes sense to you. It would to me. Now I'm asking you guys to consider the impact to us. We can't afford to keep taking the hit. With the delays (our problem, not yours) the development costs kept ticking... the income doesn't. This is the risk we took. But at some point we break.

The alternative we have been discussing is to not communicate as much anymore because it only costs us money. I have vetoed that. But you need to understand the realities of what you are getting and at what cost to us. Just so you know.

Jim
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Jim's answer regarding having the option to choose the Nikon or Canon mount in lieu of the PL mount.
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
Jim's answer regarding having the option to choose the Nikon or Canon mount in lieu of the PL mount.
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OK, someone translate Mr. Jannard's reply for me: does it mean that in addition to buying a Stage 3.5 EPIC-X brain I'm forced to pay $2,000 for a PL mount I don't want or need? A simple Yes or No will suffice, thank you.
 
Stefan Antonescu said:
Yes.
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Welp, there goes the money I had been saving towards SSDs. I won't be able to shoot anything, but at least I'll have a shining PL mount for my invisible PL lenses. Seriously though, I hope there's a deep misunderstanding lurking here somewhere.
 
I for one completely respect Jim's point, even though I'm among those who have no need for the PL.

We all knew what the Epic-X package was when we signed up for it: PL mount included. I'd still take that in a second over the alternative (wait until later and pay more).

Red has been incredibly generous in the contents and pricing for this package. We have NOTHING to complain about. You get a mount that you don't need, which you can sell to someone else later when you get a Canon or Nikon mount - big deal. You also get to be at the head of the line for best camera in the world, at a substantial discount. Let's have some perspective here folks...

- Tim
 
Michael Hastings said:
As far as lenses wider than 14mm - Except for possibly the new 12mm MP and maybe the 8mm UP (anyone checked?), virtually none of the "real" cinema lenses like the UPs, MPs, standards, supers, Cooke's, etc. etc. even COVER the 5K sensor.
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The Ultra Prime 8R does indeed cover the full 5K image. We sold one to a client recently for his new EPIC and tested it with him. Really quite a sight.

I find the turn of this thread interesting and spells out one of the difficulties in offering a modular camera system. People seem to think it is entirely modular -- so that every little bit should be a choice of the end users. Part of the business model for any manufacturer is to forecast how many parts to make of given items for a given period. We all know that RED has struggled with this, in no small part to the complications of these parts and to issues with their subcontractors. If in the next six months RED plans to ship say 2000 cameras (I'm just making up a number here), then they have already long ago contracted to have 2000 titanium PL mounts built. If they opened it up to allow people not to take the mount then they could quickly get left with a large pile of very expensive mounts on a shelf, which was not part of the financial plan.

You're not paying for a $2000 paperweight. You're buying a camera with an included mount and then choosing not to use it. If you bought a $20,000 car as a pile of individual parts from the manufacturer, it would proaly cost you $200,000. Maybe that will help you feel better about an unused PL mount.

Would you buy a car but tell the dealer, "I don't have any kids so I don't need the rear seats. I see you make them removeable so people can carry lots of cargo and that's what I'd like to do. I see that the catalog lists replacement seats for $1000. Can I not take the seats and you drop $1000 off the car?"

No.
 
Mitch Gross said:
If in the next six months RED plans to ship say 2000 cameras (I'm just making up a number here), then they have already long ago contracted to have 2000 titanium PL mounts built. If they opened it up to allow people not to take the mount then they could quickly get left with a large pile of very expensive mounts on a shelf, which was not part of the financial plan.
You're not paying for a $2000 paperweight. You're buying a camera with an included mount and then choosing not to use it. If you bought a $20,000 car as a pile of individual parts from the manufacturer, it would proaly cost you $200,000. Maybe that will help you feel better about an unused PL mount.
Would you buy a car but tell the dealer, "I don't have any kids so I don't need the rear seats. I see you make them removeable so people can carry lots of cargo and that's what I'd like to do. I see that the catalog lists replacement seats for $1000. Can I not take the seats and you drop $1000 off the car?"
No.
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You made a good point. I don't own a car but I like the allegory.
Regards
 
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