Introducing the Panavision DXL

[Jarred Land]

wow. any chance you guys will make a traditional hand controller that works with the new wifi systems to just control focus, iris and rec start/stop.
my AC's wont touch an ipad
so we still have to rig an mdr on the camera every time.

We did already plus everyone else is making them as well. I love RT Motion hand controller integration with DSMC2 and OMODs.

 

[Michael Hastings]

One of the things I haven't noticed in the discussion is that in addition to Panavision sort of validating the Red technology it also validates the idea of using lenses with internal focus and iris motors that can be controlled through the camera ala the old Birger mount, current Red Canon mount and the optitek controller.

I have been a fan since the beginning since it obviously simplifies control in an underwater housing but there seemed to be resistance for more "professional" use. The new panavision lenses would seem to make the idea more palatable to high end productions.

I am with you Michael. I personally am a huge proponent for internal lens motors. So much so, that DXL would not exist without that being part of the program.

I hope all other cinema lens manufacturers are paying attention, because 1972 called and they kinda want their iris rods back.

Jarred: Is there any way you could make a relatively inexpensive "translator" box that we could simply hook up some potentiometers to in order to control iris and focus - a la the old DVX100 style?

Mikael's fool control is awesome for total control - wired and wifi; and optitek is great for high quality ergonomics and precision control but a lot of us (underwater housings, gimbals, 3d rigs, tripods, etc.) just need some basic control.

 

[Josh Becker]

I am with you Michael. I personally am a huge proponent for internal lens motors. So much so, that DXL would not exist without that being part of the program.

I hope all other cinema lens manufacturers are paying attention, because 1972 called and they kinda want their iris rods back.

That's awesome. It's great that rather than being like "hmm, well electronic control on stills lenses can be a little hit and miss and that's just the way it is!" you're going "well, how about we start making some internal lens motors worth a damn."

wow. any chance you guys will make a traditional hand controller that works with the new wifi systems to just control focus, iris and rec start/stop.
my AC's wont touch an ipad
so we still have to rig an mdr on the camera every time.

I'm not super familiar with RT Motion's stuff, but I think that's kind of what Latitude is, right? Lets you control EF lenses that have internal focus motors. Of course, you're looking for something that would be more universal, which I think would come down the pipeline as this stuff evolves. And with RED's embrace of third-party stuff, I'm sure companies like RT Motion will be right there to help.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

That's awesome. It's great that rather than being like "hmm, well electronic control on stills lenses can be a little hit and miss and that's just the way it is!" you're going "well, how about we start making some internal lens motors worth a damn."




I'm not super familiar with RT Motion's stuff, but I think that's kind of what Latitude is, right? Lets you control EF lenses that have internal focus motors. Of course, you're looking for something that would be more universal, which I think would come down the pipeline as this stuff evolves. And with RED's embrace of third-party stuff, I'm sure companies like RT Motion will be right there to help.

Electronic lens control on Still lenses is not "hit and miss" It is solid and precise and repeatible.
And it has been available for over a year now with RED camera system. Other than the RED own system we are the only third party with an actual product. I know that others will be good WHEN they finally start shipping. But for now... only RED and OptiTek
videos on the bottom of the page:
http://optitek.org/products/optitron-for-red-scarlet-epic-weapon-cameras/

 

[Jeffery Anderson]

We did already plus everyone else is making them as well. I love RT Motion hand controller integration with DSMC2 and OMODs.

I think he might mean with Fool Control built in as the OS or have a controller with similar capabilities?... can change ISO, Frame Rate from a single device

I think the SteadiCam guys will love the internal motors and weight saved

 

[Elsie N]

They are getting to the stage where this sensor is so amazing already, a new OLPF will give minor look changes.. only the pixel peepers will notice the difference.

At the end of the day, 99.9% of all images shot for most projects go through some form of grading process, which effectively means that any in camera colour science gets instantly discarded the moment the colourist starts turning those knobs.

I for one get my footage into our grading suite and delete what ever "look" I shot on set, and I start from scratch... I'm not interested in any in camera look.

I put more importance in lens choices.
Everyone is so concerned with out of the box colour sciences, (that they never use) but forget that all lenses have some degree of colour and contrast which is dictating the colour and contrast that falls on the sensor anyway.

This film look mainly comes from the lens, Anamorphic's and old 50 - 60's glass will make sure that filmic illusion comes through.
I know I can tell quite quickly the difference between a COOKE S4 and a Master prime, Or a MKIII super speed and a Canon lens. Most pro's can. So with this knowledge DP's choose that look they feel most suites the project they are working on.

When I'm in the air with a 30-300 Canon, then jumo back to ground with a MKIII Super speed, I have a vastly different look straight up, A base colour science is not going to save the day, but tweaking in Resolve or Base light will quickly get them looking similar in tone and colour. But that lens character stays the same.

I dropped an old shot from my very first RED ONE into an edit the other day, And it graded up perfectly with my current day 6k Dragon material. And we all know the original colour science in the RED ONE was pretty average. Yet that colour science is discarded and modern day colour tools quickly bring it to life.

I think this 'Who's got the best colour science' discussion is so over rated.

I think this bears repeating.

Of all the movies shot on R-1s, Epic MX, Epic Dragons, WEAPONs,Scarlet Ws, RAVENs... all can be re-released with a completely different look and grade if the original R3Ds are available. I suppose this can also include the PVs and Zena-Morphs as well as any future models RED comes up with as specialties or stock items that use REDCODE RAW.

And as you say, the original 4k footage cuts seamlessly with the 6k Dragon. Wouldn't surprise me if the old R-1 footage were to be somewhat unnoticeable to the untrained eye when cut with 8k footage

RED ONE was that gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Jarred Land]

all can be re-released with a completely different look and grade if the original R3Ds are available...
RED ONE was that gift that keeps on giving.

REDCODE is the gift that keeps on giving

 

[Elsie N]

REDCODE is the gift that keeps on giving

Salient point. '-)

I guess I was thinking without the introduction of the R-1, there would be no REDCODE, but that may or may not be true.

 

[jordan levy]

We did already plus everyone else is making them as well. I love RT Motion hand controller integration with DSMC2 and OMODs.

you did? a hand controller that works of the in camera wifi and controls focus and iris internally and rec start/stop?
with no added modules? id love to see it, i must of missed it. please show me.

 

[Phil Holland]

you did? a hand controller that works of the in camera wifi and controls focus and iris internally and rec start/stop?
with no added modules? id love to see it, i must of missed it. please show me.

2 years and 2 months ago, photograph by Jarred Land:

And the thing:

 

[jordan levy]

2 years and 2 months ago, photograph by Jarred Land:

And the thing:

wow! can we buy this? is it in production? so created even before we had wifi in the cameras?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Primo lust

Primo lust

I am with you Michael. I personally am a huge proponent for internal lens motors. So much so, that DXL would not exist without that being part of the program. I hope all other cinema lens manufacturers are paying attention, because 1972 called and they kinda want their iris rods back.

THIS!

I also have to ask, I'll understand if you can't respond, will RED owner/ops be able to shoot on that fantastic Panavision glass? I realize it would require the proper PV mount (presumably rented with the glass), and might not have all features supported, but it would rock the casbah. No offense to any OLPF/color matrix chops LightIRON brings to the party, but my sense is that what will really set the DXL footy apart from an 8K CF Weapon will be the performance of the PV lenses.

Cheers - #19

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

wow! can we buy this? is it in production? so created even before we had wifi in the cameras?

I think that RED/ET unit has been available with this functionality for a couple of years. We've had ours since September 2014

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

LIGHTIRON PANAVISON RED DXL + foolcontrol at cinegear

7.5K 6:5 ANA 2 ... no lens info... yet

 

[Mark Toia]

1972 called and they kinda want their iris rods back.

hahahahaa... so right !

 

[Christoffer Glans]

1972 called and they kinda want their iris rods back.

I think that all the hype about old lenses and how they perform/look has made it into everything being manual as well. Combining internal motors with old glass would be awesome, but I feel that many focus pullers as well aren't comfortable enough working in this new way, which is nuts. I would really want internal motors on cine lenses, still lenses doesn't work for pulling focus, they aren't built for it. A set of new Leica Summiluxes for full frame Vista Vision coverage with internal motors would be the perfect lenses ever.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Thanks Mark and Mike.
From what you have heard, do you think then that the raw sensor output(before encoding) is identical between Weapon and PV?
PV have not explicitly said they have altered the sensor. A marketing type jargon "sensor level" has emerged which helps to sell the idea that PV have Panavised the sensor itself using LI science.
Given PV have a serious sensor designer on board this is feasible.

It can take years to correct misinformation that spreads in the launch phase.
There is no evidence yet that a Weapon wont be able to come close to match or beat the image from a DXL



Mike Brennan

The sheet says "15 stops". Only...
I guess that's the "LI color science". :biggrin:

 

[Brett Reynolds]

I think that all the hype about old lenses and how they perform/look has made it into everything being manual as well. Combining internal motors with old glass would be awesome, but I feel that many focus pullers as well aren't comfortable enough working in this new way, which is nuts. I would really want internal motors on cine lenses, still lenses doesn't work for pulling focus, they aren't built for it. A set of new Leica Summiluxes for full frame Vista Vision coverage with internal motors would be the perfect lenses ever.

Mr. President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!

 

[Milano Questa]

The sheet says "15 stops". Only...
I guess that's the "LI color science". :biggrin:

Dragon sensor has 15 stops of usable dynamic range. Red just loves to bloat the numbers a bit for marketing reasons.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Dragon sensor has 15 stops of usable dynamic range. Red just loves to bloat the numbers a bit for marketing reasons.

You can argue what is usuable and what is technically available. I don't think RED is overselling their Dragon sensor.