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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Introducing the Panavision DXL

Mike Nagel said:
IMO, the PVC article is pretty much irrelevant because the only thing that needs to be seen is what the cam does once they got the custom OLPF in there, that the LI custom color science will take advantage of... everything right now is just introduction of gear and improved 8K Panny workflow... footage at Cinegear was good, nothing special .
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So, just to be clear, the recent DXL demo had no proprietary filtration? Just smoothly graded footage?
 
Mike Nagel said:
yes, the custom OLPF was not used... and I believe it's still in development... they target Q1 2017 for release, so plenty of time for changes ;-)
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Thank you for clarification. But also to correct myself, the presentation footage could also have included any in-camera LUT's in addition to the final grade.
 
Sure, but color science is nothing but a lut ontop of camera RGB and if PV make such it can be easily recreated. ofcourse together with a special OLPF things are different, but I would think it was odd if they went far from the red standard olpf.
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In respect to core sensor capabilities and copying the PV look, you have to ask, why go to the trouble of encrypting red raw if the so called "deep" colour science was created by unique hardware in the DLX?

Speculative Answer?
Red Raw image data is similar to Red Weapon, the custom OLPF may be as much a marketing tool to be able to claim the "deep" sensor colour science difference.

"In addition to the mechanical modifications, a unique optical pre filter provides better colour matching with film emulsions and enhanced resolution for blue screen effects cinematography."cinematography

The above quote is from Panavision in regard to the Panavised f900.
Yes their OLPF made slightly pinker pictures.
There is no record I can find nor recall that this claim was ever independently substantiated.


Michael Brennan
 
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Nailed it :biggrinjester:

13434759_1616844761959781_328907867651481034_n.jpg
 
Satsuki Murashige said:
If they simply did their color science as a LUT, anyone who rented their camera could simply make a copy and have 'Panavised' color science in their own personal camera.
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Just a note:

Regardless of a mean to the goal, rest assurred there is nothing done "simply" regarding camera's color science. LUT or no LUT. LUT itself can carry very complex and detailed image modifications, reaching far beyond any camera's settings and typical post work.


Björn Benckert said:
Sure, but color science is nothing but a lut ontop of camera RGB and if PV make such it can be easily recreated.
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You are oversimplifying.
And assuming based on oversimplification.
 
Mike Nagel said:
a lot of times 8K is overkill or unsuitable for projects due to the change in image characteristics...
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What do you mean by "unsuitable for projects due to the change in image characteristics"?
You don't have to shoot 8k for all projects, but 8k gives you the possibility to shoot 4k with 2x anamorphic lenses.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Just a note:

Regardless of a mean to the goal, rest assurred there is nothing done "simply" regarding camera's color science. LUT or no LUT. LUT itself can carry very complex and detailed image modifications, reaching far beyond any camera's settings and typical post work.




You are oversimplifying.
And assuming based on oversimplification.
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Ys I´m very much assuming as PV has not really stated or showed what they done, or possibly I missed something but you seem to know so please tell us.
 
Mike Nagel said:
yes, the custom OLPF was not used... and I believe it's still in development... they target Q1 2017 for release, so plenty of time for changes ;-)
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This is why it is curious to me that they are showcasing footage at this stage of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that they are. Some might find it validating. While I don't personally feel that there is any need for it, one only has to read a few of the 100's of CML postings on the DXL to understand why such validation is a good thing.
 
Scott Crawley said:
This is why it is curious to me that they are showcasing footage at this stage of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that they are. Some might find it validating. While I don't personally feel that there is any need for it, one only has to read a few of the 100's of CML postings on the DXL to understand why such validation is a good thing.
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I took it as proof-of-concept... that is, they are showing via a grade what they expect to accomplish in camera.

Which suggests to me that a RED 8k can achieve PV results via grade, so no need for PV envy by RED users.

*Rock star* DPs will shoot PV and lock in the look... because they can.

*Opening act* DPs will shoot WEAPON 8K and oversee grade to get that PV look... when they can

*Bar Band* Indie DPs will shoot a WEAPON 8K if they own one and will grade to their own personal taste... if they can.
 
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Ugo Del said:
So they will probably mimic the Arri lowcon filter that everybody is talking about for years and make it shine with their color science.
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I have been asking for that for a very long time. Just as an option.
Options are good!




--
 
George A. said:
I have been asking for that for a very long time. Just as an option.
Options are good!




--
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I think the arri lowcon in possibly not something that happens in the olpf but a lower base exposure for their sensor.
 
Is the problem that is being addressed by panavision about :

+) Trading Dragon dynamic range (and noise floor) where necessary to ..
+) Bring greater filtering between the overlap of Green and Red sensor pixels.
+) To use a the (now) greater difference been Red and Green primaries to more consistently determine colour (even with diverse light sources)
+) To use the Alexa 'trick' of reducing bright primary's colour saturation (this maybe rampant speculation on my part)
+) To increase saturation in dark areas where there is little noise (to retain/emphasise luma separation)
+) To fix Cyan to bring balance to the skin tone look.
+) To include the optical filtering effects of the PV lenses + custom OLPF in the colour science - to provide a subjectively consistent end-to-end colour rendition?

AJ
 
Antony Newman said:
Is the problem that is being addressed by panavision about :

+) Trading Dragon dynamic range (and noise floor) where necessary to ..
+) Bring greater filtering between the overlap of Green and Red sensor pixels.
+) To use a the (now) greater difference been Red and Green primaries to more consistently determine colour (even with diverse light sources)
+) To use the Alexa 'trick' of reducing bright primary's colour saturation (this maybe rampant speculation on my part)
+) To increase saturation in dark areas where there is little noise (to retain/emphasise luma separation)
+) To fix Cyan to bring balance to the skin tone look.
+) To included the optical filtering effects of the PV lenses + custom OLPF in the colour science - to provide a subjectively consistent end-to-end colour rendition?

AJ
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Hoping that the next version of dragoncolor has smoother highlight saturation roll-off as well. Would be great if there's a way in-camera to adjust this and ease the pain when shooting uncontrollable, overexposed LEDs on location. Maybe a highlight sat adjustment similar to knee point/slope? Love dragoncolor2 otherwise though.
 
Corey Robson said:

Hoping that the next version of dragoncolor has smoother highlight saturation roll-off as well. Would be great if there's a way in-camera to adjust this and ease the pain when shooting uncontrollable, overexposed LEDs on location. Maybe a highlight sat adjustment similar to knee point/slope? Love dragoncolor2 otherwise though.
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I second this! I do a lot of behind-the-scenes filming and super-saturated LEDs are very popular. I love the look of DragonColor2 except these over-saturated LEDs are killing me. *caughLIGHTSABERScaugh* Hopefully some day new color science can give us both.
 
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