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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC... ready.

Cory Petkovsek said:
Regarding apple, they are a hardware company. Any software they release is to facilitate the purchase of their ridiculously expensive hardware. Their hardware is twice the price of PC counterparts (which can run OSX and FCP). Yet their excellent marketing continues to further the insatiability of hardware in their followers.

Cory
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Really? Are you really saying that? The 90's called and they would like their misinformation back.
 
Cory Petkovsek said:
Regarding apple, they are a hardware company. Any software they release is to facilitate the purchase of their ridiculously expensive hardware. Their hardware is twice the price of PC counterparts (which can run OSX and FCP). Yet their excellent marketing continues to further the insatiability of hardware in their followers.
Click to expand...

I'd say it's the other way around. Any hardware Apple release is to facilitate the purchase of their software. Whether they know it or not, the reason most people buy a mac? To use OSX. Why do they buy an iPhone? To use the App Store. Why an iPod? iTunes. The fact that the hardware is attractive looking and generally well built is a bonus. What apple really excel at (outside of marketing) is building highly polished software ECOSYSTEMS. Their hardware, certainly in terms of components, have been pretty unremarkable (with a few notable exceptions). Their design, of course, is a different story.

In fact, if I could find the quote, I'd point it to you but I'm 100% positive that Jobs himself said a couple of years ago that "Apple is a software company" during a Walt Mossberg and interview. I remember distinctly that it was a double interview with Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, that's why it was so remarkable.
 
David Rasberry said:
Actually Mac Pro workstations are quite price competitive with PC's IF you compare similar hardware implementations: server grade motherboards, Xeon processors, ECC ram, etc. But they are still limited on graphics card support compared to the PC world.
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Agreed

My "dream" structure is a capture station on set and a workstation in the studio. The capture station is more economical and realistic as a 6-core i7 PC ocerclocked over 4ghz with redundant storage, etc, vs a Mac Pro. The Edit system, since it justifies more $$$, will be a Mac Pro. But till that next job, the capture station is going to suffice as my edit system with CS5.

But thats just me.



Workflow is so very interesting, and I think Epic / Scarlet are going to have some interesting things to say about this.


Now, if only I knew if I was shooting my spring feature on Red or Epic.... release date? HAHAHAA.... sigh. ;-)
 
Dang, I need the EPIC released SOON for a documentary I have planned for early 2011. Here's to hoping for a smooth production schedule with no hiccups!
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Have you really used Premiere CS5???...Our whole studio switched from FCP to CS5 with no stability issues whatsoever. FCP seems so outdated now in comparison to CS5 and not having to transcode ANYTHING is awesome. You can throw R3ds, MXF, mov, avi, psd sequences etc.. on the same timeline and it just works...try doing that in FCP (which requires everything to be in quicklime format...)
At the rate that Adobe is updating its software, I think Cs5 will be a good choice for the Epic....and don't forget that you can run CS5 on both Windows and Mac....thus not locking you into a specific OS...
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Very good point. I think there is no question that I am seriously considering switching my studio to CS5 myself.
 
Art Chong said:
I'd say it's the other way around. Any hardware Apple release is to facilitate the purchase of their software. Whether they know it or not, the reason most people buy a mac? To use OSX. Why do they buy an iPhone? To use the App Store. Why an iPod? iTunes. The fact that the hardware is attractive looking and generally well built is a bonus. What apple really excel at (outside of marketing) is building highly polished software ECOSYSTEMS. Their hardware, certainly in terms of components, have been pretty unremarkable (with a few notable exceptions). Their design, of course, is a different story.

In fact, if I could find the quote, I'd point it to you but I'm 100% positive that Jobs himself said a couple of years ago that "Apple is a software company" during a Walt Mossberg and interview. I remember distinctly that it was a double interview with Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, that's why it was so remarkable.
Click to expand...

Apple is not a software company, otherwise you could install osx legally on any pc and get a phone with ios from different brands, but that is not the case. Itunes is the exception, you can use it without an ipod, but really, who would? Even FCP does not use the full power of the mac pro, so for me, apple is not a software company. Even their pro apps were not apple's development, they mostly bought them from other companies (FCP, logic, color, shake)

Mac pros are fine machines, but the lack of pro options make them unusable for lots of people.

I am waiting for my stage two epic, and i am sure Ppro cs5 is already capable of importing redcode at 5k, it's 10k limit and 32 bit floating point architecture can handle 4.5k just fine.

When my epic arrives i will built a new system with the latest intel processors, nvidia quadro, etc. It will probably be more expensive than a mac pro, but it will be worth it.
 
Year end is coming. Should I plan on a 2010 purchase for taxes etc.? 2011?

If 2011 can we get pricing nailed down to purchase gear before year end?
 
Cory Petkovsek said:
After Effects is great; stable and great results, even on low resources. (Not an NLE but you mentioned CS5).
Premier is terrible; highly unstable unless given many resources, and even then??
Vegas is highly stable even on low resources.

All three support editing R3Ds natively. You were quoted max sizes for premier. The documentation specifically mentions 4.5K footage; elsewhere it says "and beyond". AE allows for something like 30k by 30k. Vegas is currently limited to 4k by 4k. However by the time the cameras are actually available, or shortly after, it is likely Sony and Apple will release patches to up the limit.

You might download a trial of Premier, but I wouldn't recommend migrating to it from FCP.

Regarding apple, they are a hardware company. Any software they release is to facilitate the purchase of their ridiculously expensive hardware. Their hardware is twice the price of PC counterparts (which can run OSX and FCP). Yet their excellent marketing continues to further the insatiability of hardware in their followers.

Cory
Click to expand...

You are absolutely wrong about Adobe PPro CS5's stability. You are however right about its heavy dependence on resources, ram, mutli-cpu's, expensive graphics cards and fast hard drives.
This is Reduser.net. I cant imagine a professional Red user whether renting or purchasing's desire to use cheap components to edit and finnish.
Redcine-X is free it does not get any cheaper than that. To say you want to use a piece of software but not use the manufacturer's suggested hardware specs and then calling the software crappy is kind of lame in my view. Its like buying a Ferrari and tossing a Prius engine into it and later claiming a Ferrari is just as fast as a Prius.

There is no need to be loyal to any one software product. If the new Apple FCP is faster to use than PPro CS5, it only makes sense to switch. For now to edit and render out Red footage in real time on a below $10,000 system budget, CS5 with a Redrocket card is the most affordable system to get.
 
Same here.
If you own a RED, you should spend the relatively decent amount on an adequate editing system. We use a GTX 285, 24 GB RAM on an 8 core Nehalem and it works as smooth as silk. A RAID is not needed unless you want to spit out DPX sequences.
 
Same here.
If you own a RED, you should spend the relatively decent amount on an adequate editing system. We use a GTX 285, 24 GB RAM on an 8 core Nehalem and it works as smooth as silk. A RAID is not needed unless you want to spit out DPX sequences.
__________________
Regards,

Uli
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Hi Uli, How does the GTX 285 compare to the ATI 5870 ? I'm going to get the new Mac Pro soon and I wonder which one is faster and better for editing and VFX work. After effects, Maya, C4D, Final cut pro, premiere.
Thanks,
C.F
 
Carlos Florez said:
Hi Uli, How does the GTX 285 compare to the ATI 5870 ? I'm going to get the new Mac Pro soon and I wonder which one is faster and better for editing and VFX work. After effects, Maya, C4D, Final cut pro, premiere.
Thanks,
C.F
Click to expand...
I would choose the Nvidia card based solely on CUDA. Speeds up Premiere as well as a few other programs that can use that system.
 
Ha, did we hijack this thread or what?? I'm feeling the love from the apple and premier lovers! :001_wub:

Rudi Herbert said:
You must be repeating what you've heard others say or are still stuck with the memories of old Premiere versions.
Click to expand...
You're right I am "stuck with memories" (or more like scars) of "old" premier versions, like /way back/ in CS4 just a few months ago. I cannot speak for CS5, however I just installed it, so we'll see.

To those who have had stable success with Premier, the stability of software should not depend upon how much hardware you throw at it. That is a poor excuse for sloppy code. That's why unix and dec based systems run the internet and not windows.

It may absolutely work smooth given adequate resources, but that is still not a valid excuse. There will inevitably be times when the system is bogged down with tons of effects and layers, or needing to frameserve from one app to another. This is NOT the time I want my software to crash because of sloppy code. In the time of low system resources either due to tons of effects and processes or simply less hardware, the system should slow down, but continue to perform without crashing or hanging.

I look forward to giving Premier CS5 a shot; I wasn't interested before reading all the positive responses. However unless they've radically changed the interface I'll probably maintain a vegas-AE workflow.

Cory
 
Santiago Marti said:
Apple is not a software company, otherwise you could install osx legally on any pc and get a phone with ios from different brands, but that is not the case. Itunes is the exception, you can use it without an ipod, but really, who would? Even FCP does not use the full power of the mac pro, so for me, apple is not a software company. Even their pro apps were not apple's development, they mostly bought them from other companies (FCP, logic, color, shake)
Click to expand...

Again, it's about ecosystems and user experience. The reason you can't buy OSX and install it legally on any hardware, in my opinion, is because Apple wants to control the usability of the software, and you can do that by controlling what hardware it shows up in, therefore controlling the ecosystem and user experience of their product. If Apple allowed OSX to be installed on whatever hardware then the "just works" concept is down the tubes... just like Windows. My point is again proven by the fact that there's nothing unique about the "driving components" meaning chips and boards in Apple products. The fact that you CAN run OSX on non-apple hardware (though not legally, as you say) is proof enough.

I still believe that the reason you buy an iPhone (certainly my reason) was so that I could use the apps in the app store or enjoy the iOS experience, not because there's something special about the hardware. Another example is AppleTV, which is special because of iTunes integration and good interface (software) design, not because of hardware superiority. The thing that makes their products special is the software, and that to me makes them a software company.

Anyway, I recognize that you do have a point in that they design and market unique hardware. So I guess it's coming to a difference of opinion.

By the way, the interview I referenced start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Z7eal4uXI There's like 6 parts, so forgive me for not pointing out the part specifically.
 
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Cory Petkovsek said:
Ha, did we hijack this thread or what?? I'm feeling the love from the apple and premier lovers! :001_wub:


You're right I am "stuck with memories" (or more like scars) of "old" premier versions, like /way back/ in CS4 just a few months ago. I cannot speak for CS5, however I just installed it, so we'll see.

To those who have had stable success with Premier, the stability of software should not depend upon how much hardware you throw at it. That is a poor excuse for sloppy code. That's why unix and dec based systems run the internet and not windows.

It may absolutely work smooth given adequate resources, but that is still not a valid excuse. There will inevitably be times when the system is bogged down with tons of effects and layers, or needing to frameserve from one app to another. This is NOT the time I want my software to crash because of sloppy code. In the time of low system resources either due to tons of effects and processes or simply less hardware, the system should slow down, but continue to perform without crashing or hanging.

I look forward to giving Premier CS5 a shot;
Cory
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1. With regards to editing and rendering RED footage straight from camera in real time with no transcoding for less than $10,000, there is no hardware software (of the shelf system) configuration that is as stable, extendable and robust as Adobe premiere Pro CS5/ RedRocket system period. Every other system out there that is less than $10,000 is an offline, online, transcode, export, import, multi re-conform application, hope the edit is tight workflow. Any other system with Adobe CS5 type power is more than $20,000.

2. Your system being bogged down with layers is limited by the amount of Ram you have, it doesn't matter if you use windows, osx, unix or linux. Thats why we all composite with hi res application generated proxies, regardless of the system used.

3. Every system under-resourced system will eventually crash.
4. The interface for CS5 is exactly the same as CS4, except for a few time saving workflow interface enhancements. But then again if you are comfortable with AE, its almost the same panel based interface across all Adobe products, except for the lovely Lightroom.

5. I have not personally edited any Red footage in Sony Vegas, from what I've heard its good.

6. Adobe CS4 continues to be updated, even as recently as a week or two ago to handle Red footage.
 
We are using Premier Pro CS5 on Windows and Mac. On both platforms Premier Pro CS5 is doing a marvelous job. It's stable, it reads R3Ds natively, it can sync via TC sound to video and creates then an usable XML/EDL which FCP cannot do (FCP creates TC synched reference files that break the connection to the original footage). If you have the right Nvidia Cuda capable card in you system many effects are RT which is truly stunning.

Premier Pro CS4 was not so great and rather unstable, especially when using R3Ds. This NOT the case with CS5. I'm a pure user and not an IT-engineer but calling Adobe's codes "sloppy" is not appropriate, is it?

Premier Pro CS5 is well under 1k. For what you get it's a bargain, IMO.

Hans
 
True movie-making in the palms of your hands. No compromises, no pretending, no limitations, no regrets. Red has literally created dreams in a small box that fits in our mits. Feels tingly right now. Hope I'm alive long enough to see RED Mobile phones- complete with cinema capture qualities in 5K or more, LOL. The tools you guys have created truly make our imaginations limitless.
Thank you Red, thank you.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
We are using Premier Pro CS5 on Windows and Mac. On both platforms Premier Pro CS5 is doing a marvelous job. It's stable, it reads R3Ds natively, it can sync via TC sound to video and creates then an usable XML/EDL which FCP cannot do (FCP creates TC synched reference files that break the connection to the original footage). If you have the right Nvidia Cuda capable card in you system many effects are RT which is truly stunning.

Premier Pro CS4 was not so great and rather unstable, especially when using R3Ds. This NOT the case with CS5. I'm a pure user and not an IT-engineer but calling Adobe's codes "sloppy" is not appropriate, is it?

Premier Pro CS5 is well under 1k. For what you get it's a bargain, IMO.

Hans
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Interesting information.
I am looking for something new when Scarlet ships, as I do not have anything which does more than HD. I have an ingrained scepticism to Adobe because of the incredibly poor coding of Acrobat and Flash, but on the other hand a trusted friend took a job with them. He is the kind who would quit in a rage if development was shoddy, so I suppose things have been straightened out.

I do not like the Apple UI, though, so I will want to run my main system under SuSE or Windows 7. Even though I write this on a MacBook Pro, I do not relate well to a system where you cannot resize a window by grabbing any edge. Actually, I have installed KDE 4 on the Mac...
 
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