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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-S (old Scarlet S35) update...

I'm thinking 5K at 24 fps would be nice. But let's be honest, it's not an Epic. And people with an Epic is probably more than happy that the Scarlet-X doesn't do 5K at 24 fps. Sure it's only 12 fps more BUT it's also doubling the performance. 4K from a Bayer sensor will still look better then any other non-Red cameras out there when projected on a 4K screen. The only thing I wanted before November 3rd was a camera with 4K (at 24 fps) and I got that, so I'm satisfied. But if however the increased framerate is upgradable in a future Dragon sensor update (which was stated to be more expensive then the Epic's update) that would be perfect for me and fully in line with the Red upgrade mantra.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
I'll do some searching around but I did see on twitter last night there was some work being done on an HDRx upgrade that may allow it at 4K or did I read it wrong?
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Jim mentioned at the launch event they were trying to work out HDRx on 24fps @ 4k with some new approaches. Nothing was guaranteed, but it did sound like they were testing a concept out to make it happen.

If they can make that happen, I'm curious if there is the possibility of something like 48-72fps @ 4k or 3k without HDRx down the line. Or at least what it would take to get that in there I'd toss in a little more dough for more frames at higher rates if there was an upgrade. It wouldn't trample on Red One or Epic in that range either.

Another interesting advancement I could see happening is the potential for 5:1 at 4k, but I'm really not familiar enough with what's under the hood. With different aspect ratio crops there's potential to squeak out a bit more.

I'm already sold on Scarlet. Made my deposit and think it's a hell of a deal. Just curious how much juice we can get out of it if it's squeezed harder.
 
Phil Holland said:
Jim mentioned at the launch event they were trying to work out HDRx on 24fps @ 4k with some new approaches. Nothing was guaranteed, but it did sound like they were testing a concept out to make it happen.

If they can make that happen, I'm curious if there is the possibility of something like 48-72fps @ 4k or 3k without HDRx down the line. Or at least what it would take to get that in there I'd toss in a little more dough for more frames at higher rates if there was an upgrade. It wouldn't trample on Red One or Epic in that range either.

Another interesting advancement I could see happening is the potential for 5:1 at 4k, but I'm really not familiar enough with what's under the hood. With different aspect ratio crops there's potential to squeak out a bit more.

I'm already sold on Scarlet. Made my deposit and think it's a hell of a deal. Just curious how much juice we can get out of it if it's squeezed harder.
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I was sold the minute they said 4K. I was sold on the Scarlet fixed before, but I was secretly hoping for something with a more affordable Canon mount.
 
Phil Holland said:
For instance, and I'm just speculating here, perhaps an update to shoot 2.40:1 at 24fps 5k or maybe faster fps at 4k.

One of the benefits of Scarlet and Epic sharing the same basic hardware and software seems to be that as one gets updates the other will benefit from them as well. Another smart move on Red's behalf.
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Correct... everything goes together. Even the fixed 8X we made on the same hardware platform, ASIC and Memory so the code was a unified base. Make a major breakthrough on one, and the other gets it. It happened a lot in development as different engineers worked on different products.
 
Jarred Land said:
Correct... everything goes together. Even the fixed 8X we made on the same hardware platform, ASIC and Memory so the code was a unified base. Make a major breakthrough on one, and the other gets it. It happened a lot in development as different engineers worked on different products.
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Awesome. You guys are mad scientists. I'm glad this is where I invested my money.
 
Can I get an official opinion on Scarlet-X with some slightly higher frame rates? I'm debating between 4 Scarlet-Xs with 60p and a major sensor crop or 2 Scarlet-Xs and 2 Sony F3 full S35 at 60p. Could/Will the 3k mode on Scarlet-X be pushed to 60p at a later date?

My ideal breakdown:

1-12 fps 5K FF
1-36 fps 4K HD
1-60 fps 3K HD
1-72 fps 1080p HD
1-150 fps 1K
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
Can I get an official opinion on Scarlet-X with some slightly higher frame rates? I'm debating between 4 Scarlet-Xs with 60p and a major sensor crop or 2 Scarlet-Xs and 2 Sony F3 full S35 at 60p. Could/Will the 3k mode on Scarlet-X be pushed to 60p at a later date?
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F3 doesn't shoot 60p at 1080, only 720. Not without outboard recorders and slog upgrade anyway.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
...just wait.
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I can't... I'm shooting 8 projects over the next year and a half. Some of them need 60p+ slow motion. Epics are out because of budget. Not renting either, makes no sense to rent camera for 6 projects, when I could buy the camera 2 or 3 times over. So I need something viable that isn't over $30,000 with in the next 4-6 months.
 
Jarred Land said:
Correct... everything goes together. Even the fixed 8X we made on the same hardware platform, ASIC and Memory so the code was a unified base. Make a major breakthrough on one, and the other gets it. It happened a lot in development as different engineers worked on different products.
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With regard to the frame rates, is there a killing-technical limitation that prevents any further teasing out of some extra frame rates in a future firmware update? Or would the magic touch come later on? I guess I'm asking if Red anticipate any major breakthroughs in updates, or has the sensor had its tires kicked enough to know that its maxed out on delivery?
 
Jarred Land said:
Correct... everything goes together. Even the fixed 8X we made on the same hardware platform, ASIC and Memory so the code was a unified base. Make a major breakthrough on one, and the other gets it. It happened a lot in development as different engineers worked on different products.
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I'm sorry if I missed it, but what ever happened to the fixed 8x? I was always under the impression (from posts early this year) that it was the furthest along in development from the scarlet platform. We even got to see that amazing footage of the tigers that was shot on the prototypes (am I remembering the correct clip?)

Fixed 8x was always hugely interesting to me. I'm a professional, just not a DP. Having something that I could afford to purchase, use and potentially incorporate into a larger production was really interesting. Are there still plans to release something like this? Something that could be a great walk-around professional quality camera?
 
Todd M. said:
I'm sorry if I missed it, but what ever happened to the fixed 8x?
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It is no longer going to be produced. RED had to determine what the best direction was moving forward with the Scarlet platform when they made their announcement and they have decided to make no-compromise cameras that acquire images at 4K or higher. Jim mentioned there were "terminal issues" with the 8x fixed lens that couldn't be resolved, but either way there was no cramming 4K into a 2/3" sensor and now we have a unified, robust platform of cinema gear to use moving forward. Yes, it's a disappointment for some (much has been written on this in the preceding pages), but I think their commitment to making professional products and way more than fair prices is the best decision they could have made on Thursday.
 
Would some moderator lock this thread up? I just saw it pop on the top and started reading from teh beginning and was VERY confused!!!
 
Häakon said:
It is no longer going to be produced. RED had to determine what the best direction was moving forward with the Scarlet platform when they made their announcement...
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I can see why Red took that path, and I do think the Scarlet they produced looks like a great camera.

My only frustration is why didn't they give us more of a head's up? For years Red has always been open about discussing. While they did face criticism from people (myself included) for talking, without delivering, when they actually knew of this change, and that they were going to deliver for certain, why they remained totally mum, making the change a shock for several people.
 
Phil Anderson said:
I can see why Red took that path, and I do think the Scarlet they produced looks like a great camera.

My only frustration is why didn't they give us more of a head's up? For years Red has always been open about discussing. While they did face criticism from people (myself included) for talking, without delivering, when they actually knew of this change, and that they were going to deliver for certain, why they remained totally mum, making the change a shock for several people.
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At least part of the answer can be summed up in one word: COMPETITION.

They've had to pull back on revealing too many details too soon to avoid letting Sony, Canon, Panasonic, and Arri know what they're up to. If Canon had known the specs of the new Scarlet in advance, would they have so over-hyped the announcement of such an underwhelming new camera? I doubt it. Canon brought a pocket knife to this knife fight and Jim Jannard brought a bazooka! I miss the old openness too, but I totally understand the need for Red to play their cards close to their vest now that they've awakened the sleepy industry giants.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
I can't... I'm shooting 8 projects over the next year and a half. Some of them need 60p+ slow motion. Epics are out because of budget. Not renting either, makes no sense to rent camera for 6 projects, when I could buy the camera 2 or 3 times over. So I need something viable that isn't over $30,000 with in the next 4-6 months.
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What about the Sony FS100? Does 1920x1080 @ 60P
 
Jarred Land said:
Scarlet is hardware limited.. not software limited. Sure.. things can get better with software updates, like we always do.. but a Scarlet isn't going to turn into an Epic with a magic software update.
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You mentioned on ScarletUser that you were looking into the possibility down the road of maybe being able to increase 4k framerates to 48fps (24p HDRx) but with higher compression through a free firmware update. Could a similar tradeoff be made possibly with 5k to get 24p 5k @ like 15:1 compression? Or would that even make sense since the increased compression could eliminate the increased resolution.
 
Gavin, I was asking a similar question on the Scarlet Feedback thread.
Although Jarred said "Scarlet is hardware limited.. not software limited" and Jim said "You are getting everything we can squeeze in that box for this price with the specs we posted." I was still wondering about the same thing. Since we see a plus in fps at 4K QHD at 7:1 from 6:1 or at 3K at 7:1 from 4:1 in my mind this means it could be possible at different resolutions as well.
And I'm still really keen on the (ages old) idea of the frame bursts. Which would be awesome, and sufficient in tons of situations.
I'm not asking for EPIC features. I know that's ridiculous, just trying to understand what makes the thing tick, or maybe even possibly hope for more in the near future.
Jarred maybe you can help us understand!?


Since SCARLET-X will now be able to swallow the DRAGON (+ some additional boards, if I remember right) it just might (!) be possible to get some higher frame rates at lower res then, because it seems it will need more processing power to be able to master the 6k sensor (if that's still the same spec). But maybe SCARLET will only be able to shoot something like 1-7 fps at 6K. Who knows. Just speculation... so I we will just have to wait on that part.
 
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