Fixed or not

[Galimathias]

For me:

Four fixed lens Scarlet with 2x extenders and wide converters - my "go everywhere" cameras for run n' gun, POV, guerilla 2nd unit, low-profile documentaries, etc.

One FF35 Scarlet - I definitely need FF35 DSMC capability to crank out both motion footage and dedicated stills on certain productions

One Epic X - Great trade-in and extras package offer from RED - how could I pass up such a great deal?

One FF35 Epic - I quite frequently need high frame rates, and I almost exclusively use FF35 stills lenses with my current RED One cameras, and FF is my ultimately desired zone with Epic.

Note: I have high hopes for the new RED Electronic Lenses. If they are good, I'll probably switch to them for all my lens use, once RED has enough focal lengths available for me to do so. The genres I shoot in call for zooms - bring on the REL zooms in a wide range of focal lengths RED!

Maybe you could buy one for me also:emote_hippie:

P.S. Joke....but you probably know that already

 

[Steve Gibby]

Maybe you could buy one for me also:emote_hippie:

P.S. Joke....but you probably know that already

Just one? I'll send ya a dozen...:cheers2:

 

[Franck De Togni]

Well, I'll probably take a scarlet 2/3 fixed for everyday use AND a S35 or FF35 (would depend on the price)
But I wish I could buy all components or parts I need at the same time ! That would be sooo great !
Lots of coins were saved and more gotta be saved.
Work-earn-save-sell stuff-work-earn-save-sell stuff Mode Activated !

 

[Niccolo]

You wont have to choose...as cinema 2/3 scarlet will be obsolete(no longer to be produced) when the expected release dates are announced.
Yes it is a bold prediction especially for a first post. My assumption is based on a simple fact:Business sense, which Jannard doesn't lack of...
-Fixed 2/3 is a contender as it will have 0 competition.
-Interchangeable 2/3 doesnt allow an easy path to Red's modularity philosophy. Upgrade to S35/FF35 just to end up with a bunch of 2/3 lenses??
-Ask any ENG, wedding, corporate pro: They care more about having an extraordinary 2/3" sensor sized cheap camcorder with some auto functions enabled(fixed scarlet) than a camcorder that has interchangeable lens capacity. As for the film/indie pros there will be 35 Scarlet & Epics.
-No strategist want to fight in multiple fronts; manufacturing a whole line of 2/3 lens mini primes &zooms would take away valuable source that could have been put into the real Red prime & zoom lense production, where Red's real 4K & above resolution power is fully realized.
-Future is in bigger sensors, let's face it.

Just speculating of course, time will tell...

 

[Stephen Gentle]

You wont have to choose...as cinema 2/3 scarlet will be obsolete(no longer to be produced) when the expected release dates are announced.

That's just stupid... You do realise that all 2/3" cameras on the market have interchangeable lenses, and the Scarlet will be able to use the B4 mount lenses they do, don't you? It's a huge market that this camera is targeting, and there's going to be no shortage of people wanting to buy it...

 

[Milan Nikolic]

Fixed, I just need such 3K all automatic camera along with my R1.

 

[David Rasberry]

2/3" cinema is my first choice. Not only can you use B4 HD lenses, but you can use 16mm film lenses too. It is my preferred format over 35mm because high quality long lenses are smaller and lighter for carrying into the field for nature shoots. 16mm and 35mm film have coexisted for nearly 100 years now and each have their preferred uses. The same will be true of 2/3" digital (they should have called it 16digital) and 35. It is a great format on its own. More HD production is shot on 2/3" than all other formats combined.

 

[Stephen Gibson]

-Interchangeable 2/3 doesnt allow an easy path to Red's modularity philosophy. Upgrade to S35/FF35 just to end up with a bunch of 2/3 lenses??.........
-Future is in bigger sensors, let's face it.

Dude...

How is there no easy path to modularity when all of the modules can be utilized regardless of brain. After fully kitting a brain, you would just have to get a different brain with your preferred mount (and obviously lenses), and you have a new fully operational and fully kitted camera. Sounds pretty modular to me.

And as someone who shoots everyday on a 2/3" camera. I can say in full faith, that the 2/3" sensor isn't going away any time in the foreseeable future. Slapping a B4 mount on a lightweight camera like the Scarlet is an ENG shooters dream come true (lug a Sony around on your shoulder for an hour or two for perspective), and like Mr Gentle said that market is huuuuuuuge. Then considering all of the C mount glass floating around at rock bottom (relative) prices, the 2/3 cinema model will be a dream come true for broke students and indie filmmakers. 2/3" sensors have a following, a lot larger than you seem to be aware of, and as long as people watch TV it will be a very very useful format.

 

[David Rasberry]

You can always shoot 2k on the 35 brains with 2/3"/16mm lenses.

There is a cult following among Lumix G1/GH1 4/3 format shooters for fast C-mount primes and they have driven prices up considerably in the last few months. But ARRI standard and B-mounts are easily convertable to PL with adapters too.

 

[Tim Hole]

Dude...

How is there no easy path to modularity when all of the modules can be utilized regardless of brain. After fully kitting a brain, you would just have to get a different brain with your preferred mount (and obviously lenses), and you have a new fully operational and fully kitted camera. Sounds pretty modular to me.

And as someone who shoots everyday on a 2/3" camera. I can say in full faith, that the 2/3" sensor isn't going away any time in the foreseeable future. Slapping a B4 mount on a lightweight camera like the Scarlet is an ENG shooters dream come true (lug a Sony around on your shoulder for an hour or two for perspective), and like Mr Gentle said that market is huuuuuuuge. Then considering all of the C mount glass floating around at rock bottom (relative) prices, the 2/3 cinema model will be a dream come true for broke students and indie filmmakers. 2/3" sensors have a following, a lot larger than you seem to be aware of, and as long as people watch TV it will be a very very useful format.

And not to mention the perfect application of 3D with MP's.

 

[Niccolo]

I see novel ideas(use B4 HD lenses, shoot 2k on the 35 brains, full faith, 3D with MP) & sentiments (a dream come true for broke students, market is huuuuuuuge) are in play.
Friends I am not disputing these possibilities, or the need for a cinema 2/3 scarlet.
I merely made an observation from a business pov, cinema 2/3 seems to be the candidate to be shed from the production line in this economic times, hence my prediction(not suggestion)...

 

[Stephen Gibson]

Niccolo, your predictions based on conjecture, which have been corrected by ideas you view as novel... though are actually commonsensical viewpoints that display the marketability and reasoning behind the 2/3" scarlet.

Baseless predictions and FUD are making the brilliant minds at RED question our input, and with illogical thread posts their viewpoint is further bolstered. Personally I think the wise thing to do is to keep negative predictions, POVs, & observations (if someone is crazy enough to have any) to ourselves, and have faith that the RED team will not let us down when announcements are made. If that means no 2/3" then so be it... they have set an unparalleled electronics precedent and they obviously have the mental chops to know what is marketable and what isn't.

 

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

I am going to be getting the 2/3 fixed. Im going to be doing some nature shoots and some downhill mountain biking shoots. I cant be carrying tons of lenses in a backpack. No I WONT be doing any stunts be sure of that lol. The fixed should fit nicely in a backpack and be carted around a mountain on a bike or go through a 10 hour hike to get to a location. Wedding videography will also be taken into account since that will be my main job. there is no time during a wedding to be changin lenses and you have to move fast = no bag. Im maxing out my consumer camera right now. I know i need the options for Extremly high quality video, sound and proper manual controls.

 

[Niccolo]

Niccolo, your predictions based on conjecture, which have been corrected by ideas you view as novel...

All predictions are inherently conjecture based.
'Novel' is not a derogatory word, unlike the ones you use; "Baseless, FUD, illogical, crazy, negative..."
As you know HD 2/3 zoom lenses are extremely expensive and not within the reach of "broke students with a dream". Why do you think RED doesnt even bother to mention about a 2/3 zoom lens? Hence the romantic idea of using these lenses while having a limited budget is NOVEL, meaning possible but uncommon practice. (good that you have one lying around, or you can rent them)
Wise thing to do is to let people voice their concerns & ideas in a respectful environment.

 

[Stephen Strangways]

Someone who wants to shoot 3D, and knows what they are doing, is likely to choose the 2/3" sensors because deep depth of field can be very desirable in 3D, and are also more likely to choose interchangeable prime lenses rather that trying to get zooms to match.

Offer a person like that all the money in the world to buy or rent any REDs they want, and they are likely going to pick the 2/3" Cinemas over all others.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

All predictions are inherently conjecture based.
'Novel' is not a derogatory word, unlike the ones you use; "Baseless, FUD, illogical, crazy, negative..."
As you know HD 2/3 zoom lenses are extremely expensive and not within the reach of "broke students with a dream". Why do you think RED doesnt even bother to mention about a 2/3 zoom lens? Hence the romantic idea of using these lenses while having a limited budget is NOVEL, meaning possible but uncommon practice. (good that you have one lying around, or you can rent them)
Wise thing to do is to let people voice their concerns & ideas in a respectful environment.

I don't understand where you're coming from - why do you think that the 2/3" Scarlet is only aimed at "broke students with a dream"? Is it just because of the price? I think that would be a fairly naive base for an argument, really. Think for a second of the other 2/3" options out there - pretty much any ENG camera, the Sony F900 and F23, and many others... These are the kinds cameras against which this model is competing, and the people who own them already have significant investments in B4 mount glass - and if all their glass only covers 2/3", then why get a larger, heavier camera that uses more power and costs more? This market is going to be a very large proportion of the people who are going to go for this camera.

Then there's the people who will use 16mm lenses that can be had for pretty reasonable prices (or so I hear). And not much has been said by RED about their mini-primes, but they could be a very good option too... I really don't see any way this camera would be "obsolete" - in fact, it might turn out to be more popular than the FF35 models...

 

[Niccolo]

why do you think that the 2/3" Scarlet is only aimed at "broke students with a dream"?

But I don't.
I simply used the term what others used to object me.

Think for a second of the other 2/3" options out there - pretty much any ENG camera, the Sony F900 and F23, and many others...

You really think these 2 are ENG cameras? You think it is fair to compare a 3CCD 2/3 cameras to a single CMOS 2/3 camera? Let's be real.
If you have HD 2/3 glass by all means it is great to use with cine scarlet, you dont have to explain it to me. My point is I fail to see a big market like you do, thats all. Anyway I'll move on and not stuck in endless discussions.
If I am wrong and cine scarlet is still to be produced it is great for those of you who have plans to buy & use it....

 

[David Rasberry]

The other market for 2/3" Cinema is 16mm/S16mm film shooters looking to move to digital.They too can leverage their existing optics for use on Scarlet It is also the only 2/3"/16mm digital camera to be announced in the under $10k market so far and the only one that will be able to produce a fully resolved native 2k digital cinema widescreen format image without cropping the sensor.

 

[Niccolo]

The other market for 2/3" Cinema is 16mm/S16mm film shooters looking to move to digital.They too can leverage their existing optics for use on Scarlet It is also the only 2/3"/16mm digital camera to be announced in the under $10k market so far and the only one that will be able to produce a fully resolved native 2k digital cinema widescreen format image without cropping the sensor.

David you nailed it, except it is not the 'other market', but the main market for this camera. Even the name of the model 'CINE SCARLET' implies that.

 

[Stephen Gibson]

I apologize if my last thread offended you Niccolo.

How is the current 2/3" market not the market for the 2/3" Cine Scarlet? When it is the only offering, like Mr Raspberry stated, under $10k. I think it is fair to compare a 3 CCD camera to Red's entry into this market, I know that is the reason I am excited to see whats announced. I slept on the Red camera until I worked with one this past summer, and if this 2/3" model has that type of quality, I will spend whatever it takes to get my hands on whatever they release.

I never said broke students have access to HD 2/3 glass, but the 16mm glass is definitely accessible. A used Angie zoom (and a host of other respectable glass) and a 2/3" cinema model will allow the same access to students wanting to shoot, that most of the current 1/3"CCD cams (and possibly cheaper than the 1/2" option) allow...if priced anywhere near the original posted figures. This fact isn't even considering the longtime 16mm/S16mm shooters

The modularity of this system and DSMC capabilities make this thing attractive to a huge cross section whether you are a film student, one man band news reporter, nature shooter, or long time 16mm buff (edit: no slight intended to the commercial, tv, documentary shooters, and industrial shooters). Seems like a huge diverse demographic to me.