Fixed or not

[Brad Webb]

T2.4!!!! holy crap.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Red was able to get it down to T2.0, have all the 2/3 scarlets able to shoot 4K, and all S35 and FF35 able to shoot up to 60fps. Those guys are miracle workers.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

Please don't take this personally, because its offered as constructive input:

This thread has multiple longtime professionals (me included) on it who have posted that they will also get a fixed lens Scarlet for some of their professional applications - and you come on here making highly inaccurate statements like that?

If changing lenses is essential for any kind of an application beyond a birthday party, that's definitely new info for the tens of thousands of television professionals who shoot daily with the same zoom lens on their cameras (they could change lenses but they hardly ever do), and everyone who uses other fixed zoom lens cameras like an HVX, EX1, etc. - and yet they're doing professional motion media work daily. There are also a certain percentage of cine-style shooters who use zooms almost exclusively - but they're not real "pros" because they use zooms, and rarely change lenses? In the hands of pros who are used to shooting with zoom lenses, use zooms as variable primes, have pro-level camera skill sets, and open minds, a fixed lens Scarlet, with a 2x extender and wide angle converter will be a very potent pro camera system - that will be able to shoot either RGB (if it stays in the specs) or RAW.

There are professional styles and genres that inherently call for zooms, and there are others that call for primes. Real pros know when to use each, avoid developing biases, prejudices, and elitist attitudes toward other professionals, and just go out and get outstanding images - with whatever camera system they pick for a project.

If someone wants to be a real "pro", they keep an open mind, realize that cine-style using primes is but one sub-style of professional motion media work, that each project, genre, style, and sub-style of shooting calls for different types of lenses and accessories, and above all else they give respect to all the other shooters, styles, and equipment setups - that's what a real pro does.

Again, there are multiple longtime professional shooters on this thread who have posted that they will be getting a fixed lens Scarlet for some of their pro level work. I'm one of them. I'm a 30+ year veteran EFP style, cine style, and with R1 usually a hybrid style shooter, I've owned and extensively used my multiple RED One cameras for over two years now - and as soon as they're available I'll be buying a FF35 Epic, an Epic X, a FF35 Scarlet DSMC, and four fixed lens Scarlet - all for professional use. I don't do birthday videos - but I have done several hundred national television programs, scores of commercials, and tons of high end business productions. I don't "want to be a pro" - I've been one for decades - and I don't view switching of lenses as mandatory - I only do that when its called for.

IMO the fixed lens Scarlet will fill a very useful niche in a pro shooter's kit

I do use fixed lens cameras a lot: my current personal camera is a Sony EX1 and I've been using it for corporate, industrial, commercial and TV work - and 90% of the time I do ENG fo RAI (Italian equivalent of the BBC), even though the Betas we still use here have removable lenses, there's only a zoom lens on the machine. Just yesterday, on an ENG shoot, a colleague of mine said he would've preferred to switch to a wide angle lens to shoot some of the coverage we were doing, but, as the core of the gig was shooting some interviews, we only had zooms.

Bottom line: you may not always take advantage of it (so you will be going out with only one zoom lens), but having the possibility to change lenses makes the difference imho. With those small primes and the system modularity, I can see ENG work becoming more like shooting stills at an event, either by having people quickly changing lenses or even bringing two brains with different set-ups with them.

 

[Adam Nix]

Honestly, buying a fixed Scarlet to be used with a Letus is pretty senseless: the whole kit (without the lenses) would end up costing like buying the 2\3 Cinema.

The full fixed lens kit (at the moment) is supposed to cost 3750 $. A Letus Extreme (without optimization for the singular camera system) will take you some extra 1200 bucks (ok, 1199 - but we aren't calculating shipping expenses...and they won't definetly charge 1 dollar) - so far you're already around 4950 dollars and what you have is a speed-taking, independetly juiced adapters with no lenses mounted on a camera that might perform better independetly albeit with only one lens.

I guess I was talking more about people who are coming from the fixed lens world already, trying to transition to interchangeable lenses. You could get out with a fixed lens Scarlet and a Letus for about $5000, buy lenses that would cover an S35 or FF35 instead of shoe-horning yourself into lenses that would only work with a 2/3" sensor. Then later on, you could upgrade to a S35 scarlet or Epic, sell the Letus, and have a good selection of glass to work with. And in the meantime, have the flexibility of the fixed lens while still being able to achieve that 35mm look. I know it's always possible to achieve the same look on a 2/3" sensor, but there are circumstances where you don't have enough control to do so (limited space, light, etc).

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

I guess I was talking more about people who are coming from the fixed lens world already, trying to transition to interchangeable lenses. You could get out with a fixed lens Scarlet and a Letus for about $5000, buy lenses that would cover an S35 or FF35 instead of shoe-horning yourself into lenses that would only work with a 2/3" sensor. Then later on, you could upgrade to a S35 scarlet or Epic, sell the Letus, and have a good selection of glass to work with. And in the meantime, have the flexibility of the fixed lens while still being able to achieve that 35mm look. I know it's always possible to achieve the same look on a 2/3" sensor, but there are circumstances where you don't have enough control to do so (limited space, light, etc).

True, even though I am afraid the value of adapters like the Letus will drop significantly after this gear hits the streets - and, at the same time, lenses will get even more expensive than they are now after their price has been skyrocketed by the RedOne (as there will be EVEN MORE people wanting them).

 

[PaulClements]

T2.8 seems quite slow for a zoom for a 2/3rd sensor. Afterall there are optics such as the zeiss 18-100 T1.8 that covers a greater focal range and covers a larger area in 16mm. I'd be disappointed if the final zoom on the fixed lens scarlet wasn't around T2.0 or possibly better.

Paul

 

[David Rasberry]

I think it will be somewhere in the T2.4 range based on the announced 77mm lens diameter. This seems to be something of a sweet spot for good all around optical performance in zooms.
I have a vintage f1.6 8-24mm wide zoom for 16mm and the front element diameter is 95mm.

 

[Lee Saxon]

If there was no interchangeable-lens 2/3" Scarlet, I might briefly briefly consider the fixed-lens 2/3" Scarlet before quickly deciding to save up for the S35 Scarlet.

Since there is an interchangeable version, I'd forgotten the fixed-lens version even existed. Why would you ever limit yourself to one lens?

What if you decide you need extreme telephoto for a shot? What if you decide you need fisheye for a shot? Adapters that you stick on the front of the lens? that steal 1 or more stops of light? That's what people who own $900 Canon camcorders do.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

If there was no interchangeable-lens 2/3" Scarlet, I might briefly briefly consider the fixed-lens 2/3" Scarlet before quickly deciding to save up for the S35 Scarlet.

Since there is an interchangeable version, I'd forgotten the fixed-lens version even existed. Why would you ever limit yourself to one lens?

What if you decide you need extreme telephoto for a shot? What if you decide you need fisheye for a shot? Adapters that you stick on the front of the lens? that steal 1 or more stops of light? That's what people who own $900 Canon camcorders do.

I agree, even though I wouldn't spit on Adapters: they are a nice third-party solution, not perfect of course, but they work (the letus adapters, at least). How many Red owners used to shoot with a HVX200 + Letus?

 

[Dave Gray]

What if you decide you need extreme telephoto for a shot? What if you decide you need fisheye for a shot? Adapters that you stick on the front of the lens? that steal 1 or more stops of light? That's what people who own $900 Canon camcorders do.

I believe that Jim said they're bringing out tele and wide adapters. I've never had any drastic light-loss with these type of adapters (I think they loose less than 1% light). I use to have an Century optics death lens. I think your referring to the type with ground glass in though, not sure.

I'm picking up the fixed. I'm going to use it to film snow sports. The fixed definitely makes sense for this; I don't want to be lugging multiple lenses around with me.

People doing corporate and events photography are probably going to just grab the fixed too I'd think. Why bothered kitting out every camera with a lens kit when you've got one lens that can cover an large range; even larger with adapters.

 

[Stronz Vanderploeg]

I believe that Jim said they're bringing out tele and wide adapters. I've never had any drastic light-loss with these type of adapters (I think they loose less than 1% light). I use to have an Century optics death lens. I think your referring to the type with ground glass in though, not sure.

I'm picking up the fixed. I'm going to use it to film snow sports. The fixed definitely makes sense for this; I don't want to be lugging multiple lenses around with me.

People doing corporate and events photography are probably going to just grab the fixed too I'd think. Why bothered kitting out every camera with a lens kit when you've got one lens that can cover an large range; even larger with adapters.

Yeah this is the situation I find myself in. Currently I use an HVX200 with an M2 for film projects but most of my actual paying gigs, I just use the HVX. No sense in trying to switch lenses during events. Yes, I lose that shallow depth of field but most of the time it's better that I do.

If I was doing only film work then I would get the cinema or FF35 scarlet but that's just not the world I live in.

Hopefully the fixed scarlets will have a larger zoom but if not, adapters will work too.

 

[Russ Blaise]

I'm picking up the fixed. I'm going to use it to film snow sports. The fixed definitely makes sense for this; I don't want to be lugging multiple lenses around with me.

That's my thinking... I'm shooting a WWII film documentary in New Guinea and don't want to be lugging a lot of camera gear around while traipsing through the jungle dodging headhunters.

… just kidding about the headhunters, but where we are going, there might be some restless natives.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

My only worry is that its low price opens it up to a market full of people who might not get the whole RAW workflow, and expose it incorrectly, get dodgy footage out of it and then complain about the camera... And those who won't understand the post workflow (which is pretty easy with FCP and Premiere CS4, but still)...

You mean sorta what happened when the R1 came out?

By now my in-law shoots his birtday shots in RAW. And treat them really well.

RAW is gonna be the new DV, BUT with "pro" and "consumer" applications for the users. It's inevitable that we will see RAW in apps like iMovie within the next 2 years. And probably will the "new" kids diving into RAW without video-background holding them back and making them do senseless and illogical exposure and developing choices based on experienses with video-formats - do a quantum leap and bypass a lot of the "pro" users.

RAW is not mysterious. It's actually pretty logical from set to finnish. Much more so than a lot of the other formats around.

And an auto WB/Exposure/development/delivered-to-net-or-blue-ray birthday-video will look fantastic compared to any of the prosumercameras of today - even without the knowledge.

As of B20 - thee absolute NEED to understand the format has diminnished to within consumer level.
Those who understand it will still prevail in a professional environment, though.

 

[Erik Naso]

For me it’s the fixed. I want to load up on accessories and be ready to upgrade. Lenses are pricey but then you could always rent the glass.

 

[Martin Weiss]

 

[Hunter Peterson]

I should've seen this before...

Thank you for future reference

 

[Jon Carr]

My only question about the fixed is how deep of a zoom lens is the fixed? Is the lens gonna be as deep as EX1 or HPX? If so I'm thinking the 2/3 cinema with the Nikon mount for me.

 

[Anthony Rinaldi]

My only question about the fixed is how deep of a zoom lens is the fixed? Is the lens gonna be as deep as EX1 or HPX? If so I'm thinking the 2/3 cinema with the Nikon mount for me.

The latest info says 8x, which is less than the 14x/13x of the EX1/HPX. My old consumer JVC MiniDV had 16x optical zoom, and you can get very, very used to having that much.

RED did say they'd make telephoto and wide adapters for the fixed model, (I hope that's the proper terminology.)

 

[soren k jensen]

Fixed, I do one-man run and gun docs. Rent R1 or whatever when needed and meaningful. I shoot on HPX171's now and will keep them, DVCPRO HD for SD delivery is fine. I love it. everything is a matter of budget and vision, hehe.

 

[Nikita Olenin]

As far as I can see, Fixed 8x = about 25-200 mm lens.
If 2,8T is a real value for the entire range, I'll choose "fixed".

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I couldn't make a decision on this yet seeing as the products are not out yet. I was leaning towards the cinema, but now I have no idea. I figure I shouldn't spend to much time on it till I know all the specs and can make an informed decision. But it is fun to dream. I'm more worried about bringing my skills up to par, rather than if the scarlet specs will be the best out there or improved or not. I just can't wait to be part of this groundbreaking company.

Thanks to the RED team and keep up the good work.