EPIC-S (old Scarlet S35) update...

[Patrick Grossien]

Oh and one more thing ...

Since it seems right now that SCARLET-X is the morphed result of SCARLET and EPIC-S is there any news if EPIC-S will still be made? If that makes sense at all...!?
So the EPIC-S will be an in-between camera body with 25fps @ 5k? As mentioned before something similar to a RED ONE replacement? The setup could be 3 bodies at (round about) $10,000 SCARLET-X / $20,000 EPIC-S / $30,000 EPIC-X?

But to me this seems as these cameras would cannibalize themselves. Why not just spend the extra bucks if you really need it? If you really do need the full 5k, the 10 or 15 grand from an imaginative EPIC-S price point don't really make that much of a difference. And the only plus would be a little bit higher fps at lower res like 2k or maybe even some at 4k. Does that really make sense?

But still, because I'm always curious: Any thoughts on that part?

 

[Patrick Grossien]

My only frustration is why didn't they give us more of a head's up?

I understand your frustration, because I was also dreaming of the fixed lens, fly-by-wire setup with high fps. And 3k, for the time being, would have been sufficient for most indy, documentary and lower budget commercial projects, and then I can still rent an EPIC when I need to. But as you said, I totally see why they did it - and everybody was screaming for the full frame S35 sensor!

But despite all that, an earlier announcement wouldn't (really) have made any difference at all. You just would have been sad about to see it go a month earlier. Between the wait of a couple of years, that month or two doesn't really make a difference to any of us as far as I see it. And the timing of announcing the SCARLET couldn't have been any better. So yeah, it's sad and I guess Jim and Jarred and crew must be the most disappointed to let go of the fixed lens idea. If there would have been a way, we would have had the fixed lens system now. RED is not the type of crew to let go of an idea, because it just SEEMS impossible If they would have carried on, who knows how long it might have taken them to make it, if at all, with more and more R&D money down the drain, which at some point just doesn't make sense for a low budget camera anymore.

But who knows, maybe in some time they are able to come out with an electronic lens that delivers a similar workflow...

 

[Patrick Grossien]

What can software updates change?

the way stuff works

love that post

 

[Maik Müller]

I would have loved to have the fixed, it was a great concept, but i also was looking forward to get a EPIC-S later, so in the end i'm fine with how the things changed. I also want to add that it was foreseeable, Jim's postings here and there could lead you into the right direction. I admit i didn't dare to think we will get nearly EPIC-S as Scarlet, i just expected things to be changed.

But i'm actually not 100% happy right now, its just nitpicking, i'm not really complaining. I've made my order...

Getting the ability to shoot 4k comes with some trade-offs, if we can call it so. The promised 3k @ 120fps from scarlet 2/3 was so sexy to me, i really miss that. 1k isn't a replacement, thats not enough resolution for today and the crop-factor is huge. The 12fps limit at 5k-mode is the other thing, lets be honest, this was a small negative surprise to me. Scarlet-S35 (and EPIC-S) was originally planned to have 5k at up to 30fps, i just never expected RED to go under 24p. I would pay more if i could get 5k with 24p (but i can't afford a EPIC-X).

I understand why the limit is there and i'm accepting it, but i don't have to like it, right?
For me, this limit makes the whole DSMC-thing a bit less attractive. Now i have again to choose between stills and motion before start to shoot. If i want to get both simultaneously i have to make compromises to still-quality. It also feels like wasting this great s35-5k-sensor a bit, because it's never used to the full when shooting motion.

Now i have to make compromises, a few more than i expected. Not wanting to make compromises has driven me to RED in the past, but now i just have to realize there are some to make even with a RED camera. I agree, the compromises to make with Scarlet are marginal compared to those we have to make with everything else, i know that and i really appreciate it.

The price-increase is the other thing, its more than i expected. Getting a full rig is simply in another league now, its far above the teased 6k-7kUSD. I thought i was careful enough to plan around 10kUSD for a full rig, but now i have to deal with 14k for a minimum rig (plus lenses!). I see the reasons why that target is missed, i know you've tried your best RED, but for me as a hobbyist its now a total different story to justify the purchase of a Scarlet. I'm not willing to deal with all the compromises of the other options, RED spoiled me too much, so i placed my order.

As i said i don't want to complain about anything, i'm really thankful for this great opportunity to step up to real professional gear and 4k. This is great and more than i expected but somehow its a bit less too.