EPIC HDR...

[David Quinn Carder]

Scarlet doing HDR at 24fps would be awesome :emote_happyhappy: Anything else has got to be cream.

Oops… I misread something somewhere or another, and was thinking Epic could do 120fps HDR at <5k resolution.

But yes, 24fps HDR would be awesome too, of course!

Can Epic do HDR at 60fps+ at a lower resolution? One of the (many) appealing aspects of the RED cameras to me is the ability to shoot at a frame rate that looks more realistic than the filmish standard of 24fps.

 

[Jannard]

Oops… I misread something somewhere or another, and was thinking Epic could do 120fps HDR at <5k resolution.

But yes, 24fps HDR would be awesome too, of course!

Can Epic do HDR at 60fps+ at a lower resolution? One of the (many) appealing aspects of the RED cameras to me is the ability to shoot at a frame rate that looks more realistic than the filmish standard of 24fps.

No promises but we are looking at HDRx™™ with smaller frame sizes and higher fps.

When we said there was a lot of power inside an EPIC... we weren't kidding.

Jim

 

[Brian Petrie]

But yes, 24fps HDR would be awesome too, of course!

IT can do HDR 48fps in 5k:thumbsup:

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

Holy Shit!

 

[David Quinn Carder]

No promises but we are looking at HDRx™™™ with smaller frame sizes and higher fps.

When we said there was a lot of power inside an EPIC... we weren't kidding.

Jim

You guys kick ass! Thank you! Even if it doesn't work out, I know y'all will try with persistence and passion.

 

[IAN SUN]

No promises but we are looking at HDRx™™™™™™ with smaller frame sizes and higher fps.

When we said there was a lot of power inside an EPIC... we weren't kidding.

Jim

3K is what? Less than half of the pixel count of 5K at an equivalent aspect ratio.
Could that mean we could potentially see a doubling of the max frame rate at 3K for HDR on Epic?
Or are there other factors at play other than simple pixel count that would make it a non linear relationship between pixels being processed per frame and max frame rate?

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

It would be nice. Though, if Scarlet did not do it, that would be a significant feature that would help differentiate Scarlet from Epic. So far, Epic is like 3x more expensive for overcranking being the only obvious big difference.

I seriously don't get why you'd want that. Sure, you pay more for EPIC, but as the whole system is modular, your kit will probably include a bunch of Scarlet S35's to complement your EPICs. I'd want all those stops on all my angles.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Yes... it is still records as REDCODE RAW. Only the HDR combining is "baked in". That probably is a bad choice of words...

Jim

I don't understand then.

If the single-stream HDR mode is still RAW, with all the usual adjustment parameters available, with no particular "look" or "tone-mapping" applied, then it sounds like it's just a clip with way more exposure latitude than usual. And the final product wouldn't even have to look "HDR-ish" if you didn't want it to.

I'm not sure what's missing from that, for HDRx mode to add.

 

[Curran Giddens]

I seriously don't get why you'd want that. Sure, you pay more for EPIC, but as the whole system is modular, your kit will probably include a bunch of Scarlet S35's to complement your EPICs. I'd want all those stops on all my angles.

Pascal, I think you misread Shawn's post. Notice the period after "It would be nice." Meaning it would be nice if Scarlet included the HDRx feature. But, if it didn't, then....

Dont worry, I don't think anyone wants Scarlet to be limited.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Dude, forget teh fps - there is a HUGE difference between 2/3rds and bigger than S35 - you guys really don't get this!?

Forgot to mention I'm aiming for a s35 Scarlet, not 2/3. I posted my reply in response to those saying that it would be a good idea to keep hdr away from the Scarlets. I'm obviously against this idea, not only by personal interest, but because it truly is a feature that, since Red tm'ed it, IS the killer feature of Red's next generation of cameras. This should be in their every model. Now, like I said, advanced tuning and versatility can be exclusive to the higher end models, but the EasyHDR™™ should be standard to the next generation red vdslr's

 

[Álex Montoya]

I want my Scarlet fixed with or without HDR.

 

[David Rasberry]

If Scarlet meets its original spec of 11-1/2+ stops DR and a clean ISO 800 sensitivity I will be a very happy camper.
My old GL2 has about 7 stops DR and 100 ISO sensitivity.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I do not expect Scarlet to have HDRx.. It was never announced and I don't think it's ever been mentioned.

You never know.. But I doubt it

Jay

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I do not expect Scarlet to have HDRx™™™™.. It was never announced and I don't think it's ever been mentioned.

You never know.. But I doubt it

Jay

If they don't put HDRx in Scarlet than the next generation of DSLRs (Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony, Fuji, Sigma) could "eat" a lot of

Scarlet's sale with their new generation of sensors that will have the better S/N ratio, higher sensitivity, etc...

HDRx is must have for any future RED product Scarlet, Epic, or whatever is called the next camera generation (even with Monstro inside!!!).

That means HDRx should be already standard in any future RED product.

 

[D Fuller]

If they don't put HDRx™™ in Scarlet than the next generation of DSLRs (Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony, Fuji, Sigma) could "eat" a lot of Scarlet's sale with their new generation of sensors that will have the better S/N ratio, higher sensitivity, etc...

HDRx™™ is must have for any future RED product Scarlet, Epic, or whatever is called the next camera generation (even with Monstro inside!!!).

That means HDRx™™ should be already standard in any future RED product.

That assumes that Scarlet has the processing power to do HDRx™. We don't yet know that's the case. From the contents of this thread and others, I'm not sure if Red knows yet whether that's the case.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

Will HDR mode work with quick movement shots and to what extent?

 

[Steve Dent]

Red might want to issue a post-production workflow "white paper" for Epic when it's released... perhaps in collaboration with some of the early adopters/beta testers.

Better start finding some technical writers! Any breakthrough technology requires someone to explain it to us sub-brains so we can use it in post I've only just now become comfortable with Red camera R3D's - two streams is making my head asplode.

 

[DCC Erickson]

With death, taxes, war, politicians, and bills clogging up my day, it's a blessed relief to come here and find an oasis of altruistic (Red could be charging SO much more) devotion to a craft and responsiveness to the professional community. These guys could end famine and engineer world peace!

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

Pascal, I think you misread Shawn's post. Notice the period after "It would be nice." Meaning it would be nice if Scarlet included the HDRx™™ feature. But, if it didn't, then....

Dont worry, I don't think anyone wants Scarlet to be limited.

Hmm. Yea, looks like. Sorry Shawn.

I can follow that sentiment with HDRx™, yes. If Scarlet only had the easy HDR, I'd be more than happy - I'm unsure enough as it is on how to handle all that data, the render times. Twice the amount... I'm actually hoping that if one or the other is problematic for Scarlet, HDRx™ is the one which loses out.

 

[Steve Wake]

If the single-stream HDR mode is still RAW, with all the usual adjustment parameters available, with no particular "look" or "tone-mapping" applied, then it sounds like it's just a clip with way more exposure latitude than usual. And the final product wouldn't even have to look "HDR-ish" if you didn't want it to.

I'm not sure what's missing from that, for HDRx mode to add.

This is all theoretical since I'm not sure how HDR works in RED, but I do know how this works with stills.

So let's start with that HDR still of the rocky beach. Contrast is flat, but all the detail that normally would have been lost to DR limitations is there (well, maybe not all - there may be some clipping in the whitecaps, but it's hard to tell).

If this was shot in EasyHDR, you could apply a curve in post and make it look very nice if you're after a "realistic look."

If this was shot in HDRx, you would have a lot more latitude to achieve different looks because you can combine the two different exposures (data streams) in different ways. Here's where we need to refine our definition of tonemapping. A lot of processes (including all of grading) could be defined as tonemapping. The special thing about HDR tonemapping is you have multiple exposures of the same image. With stills you usually have three exposures, and sometimes many more. With RED you'll have two exposures. Twice as many bits! If you are starting with the two exposures from HDRx, you can combine them with HDR tonemapping algorithms and parameter sets to get extreme looks with cartoonish halo-ing (e.g. a video game look) if you want, or subtle looks that are more filmic, or even dreamy without looking overexposed or defocussed. And with some experimentation there are probably some "looks" that don't yet have adjectives. The Revolution!

So here's a question for RED: Can you load HDR tonemapping presets into the camera for use by EasyHDR? This could give us a better starting point in post. Since I assume the EasyHDR output can be viewed realtime, this could also be used to preview different "looks" even if the scene will be shot in HDRx.

BTW, I'm with the crowd that will be happy even if Scarlet Fixed does not have HDR. However, more options mean a broader customer base and more sales. That's good for all of us. Just don't raise the price, please.