EPIC HDR...

[Rob Ruffo]

But if the window is blown out, masking and adjusting exposure in post won't get the details back - details which you would have seen in real life. With HDR, there will be some detail to play with when you mask and adjust the window. For those of us who don't have sets, crews, equipment, time, budgets, etc. this kind of flexibility would really be nice to have.

Some people might be going for a 90's video game look. Personally, I hate it. In any case, HDR does not have one "look". HDR tonemapping can be subtle or extreme. Unfortunately, most examples that scream HDR! are extreme and have given HDR a bad name in some circles.

You and I agree. That's exactly what I meant.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Yikes... Not a good post. I'd delete the line that says you know ALL the tricks for sure...

Trust me, you don't want people reading that. It makes for a very bad impression.

I'm sure you know this already, but there is not a soul alive in this industry that knows ALL the tricks.


In my experience, the best professionals out there consider themselves students of their craft, and feel the day they know it all, is the day the art betrays them.

I'm quite proud to say I do NOT know ALL the tricks.. But it's been 25 years, I know a few, and I'm learning more every day!


Jay

I meant I know all the tricks for reducing (there is no way at all to eliminate them) 5D problems, that's all, and I am not really interested in investing time learning more about how to struggle and stress around a limited tool when I always have access to truly great ones, including our MX. Beyond a certain budget, it's silly to put everything else at risk to save a few hundred bucks and a few pounds of weight on the camera.

That's all I meant to say.

I learn new things every day, from both expected and unexpected sources, and wish to continue doing so.

 

[Ben Graham]

Tricks aside the best way to eliminate 5D problems is to shoot on a RED ONE MX!

 

[Álex Montoya]

I'm shooting a documentary on a 550D and it's an incredibly difficult camera to deal with. There are a million quirks and problems that makes an organic shooting very hard.

 

[fALk Gärtner]

AHhhhh the foundry might be the hint to it all?!?!

Reading out each line twice means the only setback you have is twice the rolling shutter - now lets see what kind of products the foundry makes - yes the only anti rolling shutter plugin for popular compositing applications available - now that algorithm could probably be implemented in camera - and bingo you have a HDR mode without temporal artificacts and less/no rolling shutter.

Maybe I am reading too much into it all but it does make some sense. And having that anti rolling shutter algorithm in camera - well that would be awesome in general

 

[Jannard]

AHhhhh the foundry might be the hint to it all?!?!

Reading out each line twice means the only setback you have is twice the rolling shutter - now lets see what kind of products the foundry makes - yes the only anti rolling shutter plugin for popular compositing applications available - now that algorithm could probably be implemented in camera - and bingo you have a HDR mode without temporal artificacts and less/no rolling shutter.

Maybe I am reading too much into it all but it does make some sense. And having that anti rolling shutter algorithm in camera - well that would be awesome in general

Wrong tree...

Jim

 

[Lee Saxon]

AHhhhh the foundry might be the hint to it all?!?!

Reading out each line twice means the only setback you have is twice the rolling shutter - now lets see what kind of products the foundry makes - yes the only anti rolling shutter plugin for popular compositing applications available - now that algorithm could probably be implemented in camera - and bingo you have a HDR mode without temporal artificacts and less/no rolling shutter.

Maybe I am reading too much into it all but it does make some sense. And having that anti rolling shutter algorithm in camera - well that would be awesome in general

That's some good detective work, but I think I recall somebody already guessed "two exposures right after each other" in another thread and Jim said "incorrect"

Edit : Jim beat me!!

 

[Aiden K.]

Jim, any chance you could post how this shot would have looked WITHOUT HDRx(tm)?

Here is a chart and a quick ungraded pic...

 

[M Olsen]

Well,

The example frame grab.. my 5 cents worth...

Wellington Harbour, around 4.30 in the afternoon, I think ,taken a little earlier in the year judging all by the foreground shadow. Sun setting to the SW.
Only 2-3 kilometers from Mr Jackson's office\studios.
But hey what would I know, aside from being an old lush, and PJ's Operator on a flick before he got truly into gear and well before he bought most of the industrial space for his studios on the Miramar Peninsula.

In my days of,f from an earlier PJ "epic" even though the office was then a long way away, a few of us would often settle in on that beach for a few wines at that time of day.

But I digress, fantastic news on the Epic\HDR front.

Regards to all.

 

[Steve Das]

...even though the office was then a long way away, a few of us would often settle in on that beach for a few wines at that time of day...

Thanks for sharing Mark..The World's Fastest Indian is a fav. nice work..
NZ style of shooting sounds pretty laid back....

 

[Christian Edwards]

Question : Will all of this hdr functionality exist within the brain or will it require modulation ?

 

[CK Olsen]

While I admit the latest Epic features leave me drooling...

While I admit the latest Epic features leave me drooling...

While there will always be "more"... EPIC is a game changer.

You will likely not ever need more. You will get it because we will make it. But EPIC is the ONE that changed everything. I have seen a lot. I own over 1000 cameras. EPIC is the one that will change history. It is the one that covers everything. Size, price,performance. If I died and went (somewhere)... I will be content. EPIC will get to market.

Jim

While I admit the latest Epic features leave me drooling, I'm running rather low on saliva, and could really use some release date info to help replenish my supply.
Maybe if I say Pretty Pretty Please??

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Wellington Harbour, around 4.30 in the afternoon, I think ,taken a little earlier in the year judging all by the foreground shadow. Sun setting to the SW.
Only 2-3 kilometers from Mr Jackson's office\studios.

Thank you for the confirmation Olsen. This, coupled with Jim saying he wants to show off HDR motion in proper fashion, and with Soderbergh once again being the first to shoot a feature with the new generation, can only mean that a new Crossing the Line is a sure 100% lock.

Based on the shadows from the rocks I also thought it was at least a few hours from mid-day. I can't wait to see what noon along the Equator will look like, but it is all kind of mute, because judging by that insane histogram on the frame there is pleeeeenty of room left to fill. :emote_happyhappy:

Question : Will all of this hdr functionality exist within the brain or will it require modulation ?

That seems to be a lock as well. All the framerate talk is really about the ASIC's power, as far as I can tell. Which means it is all in-brain processing. The only module you might add is the 3rd party overcklocker-cooling module which might let you unleash an additional 10% FPS.

 

[Brian Petrie]

Thank you for the confirmation Olsen. This, coupled with Jim saying he wants to show off HDR motion in proper fashion, and with Soderbergh once again being the first to shoot a feature with the new generation, can only mean that a new Crossing the Line is a sure 100% lock.

Yep, thanks Olsen and if any one has any doubts check out this link:
Looks very similar...:smile5:

 

[throb]

Accessing HDRx™™™ streams will be available in the SDK.

Will the SDK allow for float output versus the current 16 bit int output?
That's a big limitation for us VFX people.

Thanks
Robert Nederhorst

 

[Lee Fingersh]

How well it will compare in still mode overall to a new DSLR I am not quite sure you may be right. However, for highspeed subjects like you are talking about couldn't the Epic be very useful by shooting motion then just extracting stills(which in Epic I believe is gong to be simplified). It is like shooting 120fps raw burst mode haha. Obviously, other things are taken in to affect but you get what I am talking about just my thoughts anyways.

Not really. Viewfinder lag means the subject may never be in the frame, and poor autofocus performance (tracking) means any frames that do have the subject are likely to be out of focus. A high burst rate doesn't help much. In fact, most of the images I was talking about in my first post were taken in single-shot mode, but the subjects were properly framed and in-focus. 120fps of out-of-focus subjects or empty frames doesn't do anyone a lot of good.

I agree with the poster that said they don't really care since you can get something like a 7D for a pretty modest price and size that will do this job extremely well (shoot stills of high-speed subjects). The only reason I posted what I did was that Jim stated/implied that an EPIC could do pretty much everything. That might well be true for him, and even for most people, but I'm claiming there's still a few areas of shooting in which even a modest dSLR would out-perform the EPIC by a substantial margin. In this case, I'm claiming those areas are high-speed subjects where viewfinder lag will cause difficulty in finding the subject in the viewfinder and keeping it there, and subjects that are moving quickly through the depth-of-field where predictive phase-detection autofocus is invaluable and not available on any RED camera.

Like I said, this looks like quite an interesting system for many other shooting situations, especially those for which it was really designed - cinema/motion/video.

 

[Brian Petrie]

Yeah makes sense Lee, I was thinking about manual focus where it'd be comparable. Ha sometimes I forget that Epic and true cinema camera will have AF abilities. I think where Epic will really shine is in the fashion/advertisement world where shoots are very expensive and talents time is very costly/valuable so even though it's not MF its positives will outweigh the fact. Not to mention, the Epic's price will be comparable to other cameras used in that field. As you and others have mentioned for many other applications though a DSLR may make more sense.

 

[Deanan]

Will the SDK allow for float output versus the current 16 bit int output?
That's a big limitation for us VFX people.

Thanks
Robert Nederhorst

Yes and it'll be the same as what's going out of the EXR output in RCX now.

 

[throb]

Yes and it'll be the same as what's going out of the EXR output in RCX now.

Great! I will grab the new RCX and try it on older footage.
full float (16 bit float is fine) out of the sdk will be excellent.

rob

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Tricks aside the best way to eliminate 5D problems is to shoot on a RED ONE MX!

Exactly - no tricks required You can just focus on cinematography instead of convoluted "work-arounds" that don't really work