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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Fast Prime Set WOW

Tom L said:
As for the limitation of wide, fast lenses, there does seem to be some wall that is being hit up against. There have been rumors of some kind of f/2 ultra-wide-angle FF35 coming out from Canon.
Click to expand...

It is just size. a 14mm canon lens is 80mm in diameter. A simple analysis says you need twice as much light to get F2 so you need 115mm diameter. Not that big for cinema people but that is pretty huge for a still camera (but I suspect that will be a direction Canon goes). 115mm is the size of a master prime t1.3 but remember it only needs to cover the sensor that is 60 percent of FF35. An F1.4 14mm for FF35 would presumably need to be over 160mm diameter.
 
Michael Hastings said:
It is just size. a 14mm canon lens is 80mm in diameter. A simple analysis says you need twice as much light to get F2 so you need 115mm diameter. Not that big for cinema people but that is pretty huge for a still camera (but I suspect that will be a direction Canon goes). 115mm is the size of a master prime t1.3 but remember it only needs to cover the sensor that is 60 percent of FF35. An F1.4 14mm for FF35 would presumably need to be over 160mm diameter.
Click to expand...

Bring it on! :001_tt1: :ihih:

wait... is that like bigger than the camera itself?
 
one word

one word

Michael Hastings said:
It is just size. a 14mm canon lens is 80mm in diameter. A simple analysis says you need twice as much light to get F2 so you need 115mm diameter. Not that big for cinema people but that is pretty huge for a still camera (but I suspect that will be a direction Canon goes). 115mm is the size of a master prime t1.3 but remember it only needs to cover the sensor that is 60 percent of FF35. An F1.4 14mm for FF35 would presumably need to be over 160mm diameter.
Click to expand...
I have one word for you-aspherics. They do miracles for speed size and performance. I'm talking real aspherics-not slightly aspherized on single surface lenses. BP primes are the example here..
 
OptiTek said:
I have one word for you-aspherics. They do miracles for speed size and performance. I'm talking real aspherics-not slightly aspherized on single surface lenses. BP primes are the example here..
Click to expand...

Jacek,

BP rimes you mean the new set of Band Pro "Mystery" primes...?
 
New lens trends

New lens trends

Sanjin Jukic said:
Jacek,

BP rimes you mean the new set of Band Pro "Mystery" primes...?
Click to expand...
That's what I mean- the front elements are around 35mm on all lenses even the wides. I'm glad to see some sanity in the lens business- finally some primes that feel like primes and perform like primes(hopefully-I haven't seen them yet) With all these huge primes I started wondering if they were charging per pound(or kilo) hence the high prices....:wink:
 
just the glass

just the glass

Alex Boothby said:
You mean 95mm fronts... no?
Click to expand...
I was talking about the size of the glass only. Barrel diameters are usually designed to conform to existing standards-filters, matteboxes, etc
 
OptiTek said:
I was talking about the size of the glass only. Barrel diameters are usually designed to conform to existing standards-filters, matteboxes, etc
Click to expand...

And if I may add, to conform to the largest front element glass in the set, so 95mm will accommodate the 12 or 14 front element.
Or so I have heard :-)
 
img_0145_640m.jpg

Dr. Andreas Kaufmann with the first three lenses of "Mystery" prime set.

img_0133otto640m.jpg

Otto Nemenz with "Mystery" prime lens.

Mystery Primes slide show 1>>>

Mystery Primes slide show 2>>>
 
Tom L said:
Bring it on! :001_tt1: :ihih:

wait... is that like bigger than the camera itself?
Click to expand...

Mule not included in the price, not to mention that 6.6" x 6.6" filters would not cover it. Not sure it is the right direction.

It comes with some difficulty to say that, but I agree with Michael on this one. I like the size and format :biggrin:
 
OptiTek said:
I have one word for you-aspherics. They do miracles for speed size and performance. I'm talking real aspherics-not slightly aspherized on single surface lenses. BP primes are the example here..
Click to expand...

Can you explain Jacek, which other lenses, including still lenses, share similar design and what is the fuss about "real aspherics?

RPP, UP's, MP's, S4's, Nikon 14-24, any EF's, Leicas?
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Aren't the Leica-M lenses FF35? I think that is what he is trying to say while being subtle about it.
Click to expand...

No, all M lenses are similar in size to S35 (1.33x crop). The R series is FF.

But, regardless of the format, I'd like to know what the fuss is about "true aspherics" and which lenses have them and which don't.
 
I was afraid so, but, since they are so tiny compared to others it still applies. There are lens designs and lens designs. Or is the added size only for mechanics? The front elements seem to be far bigger so I guess it has to do with accomplishing lack of aberrations, speed, lack of distortion, and small sizes.

But I think I see what you are asking. You probably want to hear a more technical description of what Jacek means by true aespherics, or what makes "all out" aespherics superior and what they can achieve.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
No, all M lenses are similar in size to S35 (1.33x crop). The R series is FF.
Click to expand...

img16352.jpg

Leica M lenses cover the full frame 35 mm from the beginning:

"The history of 35-mm photography began almost 100 years ago with the legendary Ur-Leica.
Today, it is the Leica M9, a landmark camera that carries the proud heritage of Leica M cameras into the digital age.
The Leica M9 is the world's first digital system camera of its size to be built with a full-frame sensor - a CCD sensor
developed specifically for the M9 - that is capable of perfectly capturing the full 35-mm format (24 × 36 mm) in ultra-high resolution..."

LINK>>>

Pawel Achtel said:
But, regardless of the format, I'd like to know what the fuss is about "true aspherics" and which lenses have them and which don't.
Click to expand...

"The competition in the SLR arena for the highest speed lens continued from 1960 to 1985 between several manufacturers,
but the CRF scene was abandoned around 1965 leaving Leitz as the sole survivor. Undoubtedly the Leitz designers knew
about the Canon 0.95 lens and were aware of the need to produce a superfast lens themselves. Their research into the design
options indicated that the only solution for a lens that combined a compact mount with good performance was to use aspherical surfaces.
The aperture of the original Noctilux was set to 1:1.2. A wider aperture required a bigger mount and it might also be assumed that the size
of the lens elements was too large for the aspherical grinding process.
The Noctilux had internal competition from the Summilux 1:1.4/50mm that offered comparable performance at a much lower price.
Still the 50% additional light that falls on the film surface could become important. When working in very low light levels it makes sense
to put the minimum exposure just on the edge of the toe area of the characteristic curve of the film. Here any additional light that can be used
to activate the AgX crystals is welcome. Nowadays the S-shaped curve that for such a long period in photographic technique defined the tonal
reproduction has been made obsolete by digital capture where a linear response is the normal case.
The successor of the original Noctilux widened the maximum aperture to 1:1 and used only spherical surfaces. The performance wide open is
quite good and much better than what the Canon 0.95 offered. Both lenses used seven elements and no doubt the new glass types available to
the Leica designers and their experience with high speed CRF lenses gave the Noct-design this much improved performance..."

Read more 1 >>>

Read more 2 >>>

Mr Kölsch.

"The Solms period can be characterized by the switch to new designs, new glasses, new design principles and new production methods.
It is a tribute to Mr Kölsch that he could break the traditional mold into which the Leitz designs had had to be designed.
The most conspicious element is the adoption of moulded or grounded aspherical elements. The most important aspect
is the narrowing of the mechanical tolerances to a fraction of what was the norm in the Leitz days.
The progress can be indicated when we look at the Apo-Summicron 2/90 asph. At full aperture this lens delivers better image quality
than the Summarex 1.5/85 at an aperture of f11 and as good as if not better than the Summicron 2/90 at f/4.
By now the Leica designers attack every aberration and have the knowledge and means (glasses, machinery and precision) to no longer
have to adopt a compromise. Naturally the ideal lens does not exist, but the balancing of aberrations is done at a much higher level and
with much better precision than in the past.
If the Berek designs allowed the Leica photographer to capture images in light conditions where no-one had dared to walk
and if the Mandler designs helped to define the role of the photojournalist as someone who could and would capture the minutiae of the human condition,
where then would we locate the Solms designs?
If we study the classical pictures made with the Daguerre method we marvel at the exquisite detail that is captured in all its full glory
and we even imagine the transcending of reality by the most accurate reproduction of events as seen by the camera eye. This is the same spirit we enjoy
when we use Solms designs. We take pictures because of a psychological drive to transcend one’s own existence when freezing and fixing a moment
in time that we do not want to forget or an emotion we want to cherish.
The early Leica photographers were at awe about what could be possible, the later generation documented its enviroment and its reaction to events in a straightforward,
honest way and the current M6 user enjoys the thrill of capturing lights and shadow s with the technique of chiaroscuro: contrast, shape, line, form and texture are the medium,
the accuracy and the information capacity of current Leica lenses are the tool .
One has to learn the tricks of the trade (about which I will talk later, if Bill allows me -:)), but the current state of the optical art, as defined by Solms,
can redefine the joy of taking pictures as it did when Berek created his designs. "

Read More>>>

Aspherical revolution

"The aspherical revolution within Leica started with the arrival of Mr. Koelsch, originally from Zeiss,
and since then the Leica CRF lenses have been improved beyond the wildest dreams.
High speed lenses share a number of difficult challenges: Spherical aberration (SA) occurs when marginal rays
(the rays entering the lens at the edges) focus on a different plane than the paraxial rays (the rays centered around
the optical axis of the lens). This error becomes more pronounced when the lens diameter is bigger
(as is the case with the high speed lenses). Coma is basically the same phenomenon as SA,
but for skew rays entering the lens in the principal plane (the plane that contains the optical axis).
The worst villains are the oblique rays entering the lens from object points that lie outside the optical axis and its plane.
These rays create astigmatism, a problematic aberration for high speed lenses. Add to this list the correction for curvature of field,
the vignetting and the chromatic aberrations, particularly in the blue region of the spectrum and you may see the challenge.
Remember too that many aberrations grow in magnitude by the third power when increasing the aperture.
In the case of the Leica CRF lenses an additional requirement is the physical size of the lens.
The smaller the lens size, the more difficult the aberration correction.
Since around 1990, the Leica design approach has been to deliver CRF lenses with optimized performance over the full aperture range
and with a strong emphasis on the wider apertures. This approach has driven the MTF values to very high values over the whole image area,
in many cases approaching the theoretical maximum. The resulting image formation favors overall clarity, crisp definition of fine detail,
fidelity over an extended subject depth and subtle reproduction of tonality in hues and greys. This fingerprint is markedly different form
that of previous generations of Leica CRF lenses. Some Leica users look favorably upon this classical fingerprint and would like to see modern designs
with this classical look. This is precisely the gap that is being filled with the Voigtlander lenses from Mr Kobayashi.
Zeiss with the ZM lenses occupies a middle ground which is located between both extremes. "

Read more>>>

Lothar Kölsch lens designer>>>
 
Hey Pawel... nevermind ;)

That must be what he is talking about, look at the size of those darn things!

And they have that 21mm f/1.4 which is only 25mm longer and ~300g heavier than the 28mm f/2.0 which I believe is in this picture.

leica-m9-digital-camera-photos-0.jpg



That means the 21mm f/1.4 is 1.3lbs and shorter than Cooke, MP or RPP 50mm lenses are thick!

And they have a 50mm f/0.95
 
leica m 21/1.4

leica m 21/1.4

Hey Sanjin

Have you used the Leica M 21/1.4 on the red one? Will it work? Also, do you know were I coud get my Leica R lens serviced?

Cheers
Brian
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
And they have a 50mm f/0.95
Click to expand...

Wonder what's the T-stop on that one. I'm not sure how this works, is a T-stop of less than 1 possible? I was thinking T1 would be 1:1 transmission.
 
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