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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FEB Update / IPP2 Preview 2

So this is what happened to Epic Dragon upon upgrading firmware. Anyone else had similar issue? Filed support ticket but no response yet. Only being annoying and persistent as have shoot in the AM.


Have a sinking bad feeling thou :/
 
Sean, I have sent an email to support asking for them to contact you as soon as they can.
 
Sean Cruser said:
So this is what happened to Epic Dragon upon upgrading firmware. Anyone else had similar issue? Filed support ticket but no response yet. Only being annoying and persistent as have shoot in the AM.


Have a sinking bad feeling thou :/
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Sean,

Did you try to force the camera to the factory settings by any chance?

I'm sure you know of this stuff.

Power down the camera, remove all power supplies connected to it. Heck, I would detach the monitor and other peripherals attached to the brain just to be on the safe side. Wait a few minutes. Reconnect modules that are needed. Power up the camera (do not relax pressure applied on the power button) keep holding the power button for 30 seconds. (One of my friends had the same problem and this procedure worked for him).
 
I've been doing some testing to sort out workflow issues, and running into a few problems, none of them image related.

I figure I ought to ask here before filing a ticket, in case it's either user error or something already on the queue to implement or whatever.

The DNx proxies are turning out to be problematic; they're recorded as separate audio and video MXF files, and the audio doesn't load in most of the tools we tried. Media Composer doesn't seem to even see the audio MXFs, and it gives me a missing track reference error when I try to play the video files.

ProRes proxies work fine, for the most part.

Neither Premiere nor Resolve see the slate info though; RedCine shows it, but all of those fields are blank elsewhere. Is that a Resolve/Premiere bug? (If so, I'll but Black Magic.)

There's no slate info in the metadata for the ProRes files either though.
 
Brent@RED said:
SCARLET-W is going to be a bad ass camera for years to come....
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I strongly believe in this. Now I see Dragon or Helium (and ALEV III) sensor as 'digital filmstock', as I think we have reached the pinnacle of CMOS technology. The camera should no longer be a limitation in any creative process. Even if another breakthrough emerges (hint: QIS), it would not render any modern CMOS cinema camera obsolete.

Btw, I really like the Low Contrast + Highlight Roll Off 4 :)
 
Thank you Phil for the tests, once again :)

I have a feeling the Low contrast + roll-off 4 gets pretty close to what people consider being the "Alexa look". Especially on skin.

Hope we can keep these choices in the final IPP2 implementation. Would be nice to be able to chose depending on the situation. But well, if not, we can always play with the curves a bit to get there manually ;)
 
Just WOW, without pixel peeping, just looking at my monitor and I can tell skintone looks fantastic with this update.
For skintone I'd go medium contrast roll off 4, not too flat still some pop

For Landscape and drone, high contrast roll off 4 (or 2)
 
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Nils Ruinet said:
Thank you Phil for the tests, once again :)

I have a feeling the Low contrast + roll-off 4 gets pretty close to what people consider being the "Alexa look". Especially on skin.

Hope we can keep these choices in the final IPP2 implementation. Would be nice to be able to chose depending on the situation. But well, if not, we can always play with the curves a bit to get there manually ;)
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So in Full IPP2 in camera you'll have the choice from Low, Medium, High on the contrast of the tone curve, and for the rolloff, it's the same - 1 through 4 (one hardest, four softest). To go beyond that you can put whatever kind of curve you want into the creative cube.

With respect to the look of the various options - one of the aims of IPP2 is to bridge between the SDR and HDR world. Because HDR doesn't need the rolloff it can display a greater range of colours, especially colours which are both bright and saturated. SDR cannot do this because if a colour is bright then it must be less saturated. The rolloff default is based around a good match between SDR and HDR, but it's also configurable to allow for a good range of aesthetic choices.

Graeme
 
Thai Christen said:
Just WOW, without pixel peeping, just looking at my monitor and I can tell skintone looks fantastic with this update.
For skintone I'd go medium roll off 4, not too flat still some pop

For Landscape and drone, high roll off 4
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It can all be quite shot dependent. In testing I have a wonderful library of R3D that grows as customers send me interesting shots. Where the light is flat, higher contrast developments work better. When the light is dramatic, lower contrast developments are often best. But that's why the choices are there because you the user are not one user, but many different users shooting many different kinds of projects.

The actual difference between the low, medium, high contrast curves is not that great. They all follow the same basic shape design. You won't go too far wrong picking any of them, but they're different enough to optimize for high and low key lighting.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
It can all be quite shot dependent. In testing I have a wonderful library of R3D that grows as customers send me interesting shots. Where the light is flat, higher contrast developments work better. When the light is dramatic, lower contrast developments are often best. But that's why the choices are there because you the user are not one user, but many different users shooting many different kinds of projects.

The actual difference between the low, medium, high contrast curves is not that great. They all follow the same basic shape design. You won't go too far wrong picking any of them, but they're different enough to optimize for high and low key lighting.

Graeme
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1+
I totally agree, Graeme.
Can't wait for the full implementation of IPP2.

Cheers,
Thai
 
Audy Erel said:
I strongly believe in this. Now I see Dragon or Helium (and ALEV III) sensor as 'digital filmstock', as I think we have reached the pinnacle of CMOS technology. The camera should no longer be a limitation in any creative process. Even if another breakthrough emerges (hint: QIS), it would not render any modern CMOS cinema camera obsolete.

Btw, I really like the Low Contrast + Highlight Roll Off 4 :)
Click to expand...

The camera hasn't been a limitation for any creative process for a while now. I shot a short film on a Scarlet Dragon that Red loaned me while I was awaiting my Scarlet-W pre-order (which ended up turning into an Epic-W), and got to see the final film in a theater in a private screening since it's in festival submission right now, and it looked great in spite being streamed from Vimeo.
 
An unspoken truth is being revealed here and Graeme is hinting at it.

It's key to understand that all of this is flexible as is REDCODE RAW when it comes to developing your in camera and/or final look to your footage.

Contrast plays a large role in tonal distribution as well as effecting colors along the way. Highligh Roll-Off is another interesting thing as people aim towards more of an analog film stock aesthetic.

Overall there won't be one firm answer, though likely one general default answer I think is a great starting point for most shooting conditions.

Remember at the end of the day this can indeed be manipulated in post in the R3Ds losslessly and even in the Intermediate Codecs (ProRes and DNxHR) when exported out as REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Other than the slight brightness change, the "Medium" is what you've had before. High and Low are variants with more or less contrast. If you download the LUT pack, you'll find two roll-off variants for each. The default rolloff is what I've found best most of the time, but I did get a high-key shot in testing that benefited from smoother (ie cutting in earlier) rolloff.

Graeme
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Thanks for the awesome work graeme. Just a quick question (certainly a stupid one) ... where can we download the lut pack you are talking about ? Also, how do you manage the "rolloff" to match phil holland test ? ex : IPP2 high contrast - rolloff 4.
thanks for your help !!
 
olivier harrault said:
Thanks for the awesome work graeme. Just a quick question (certainly a stupid one) ... where can we download the lut pack you are talking about ? Also, how do you manage the "rolloff" to match phil holland test ? ex : IPP2 high contrast - rolloff 4.
thanks for your help !!
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Cube are linked to in Jarred's thread-starting post, and here for your convenience: https://red.cachefly.net/IPP2_Preview/IPP2_Preview_Cubes.zip

The cubes are named and described in the associated text files, so just pick the one with high contrast and rolloff 4.

Graeme
 
olivier harrault said:
Thanks for the awesome work graeme. Just a quick question (certainly a stupid one) ... where can we download the lut pack you are talking about ? Also, how do you manage the "rolloff" to match phil holland test ? ex : IPP2 high contrast - rolloff 4.
thanks for your help !!
Click to expand...

There's a download link to it in the February update thread. Jarred included it in the link collection in his post.
 
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