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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Significant Update...

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Lauri Kettunen said:
I think it won't be a problem to sell the titanium PL-mount, if one does not want to keep it as paper weigth.
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Yes, but at what price? I suspect there will be hundreds listed on the forum the minute people take possession of their camera. If there are only a few, maybe you can get $1500 for one. But if there are many, $1000?
 
Tom Hamilton said:
Jarred,

I called you guys a couple of days ago with the intention of putting my name on the list for a Stage 4 Epic X brain at 2011 pricing, spoke to a very cool dude. He told me Stage 4 was Epic S, and mentioned a time frame somewhat far in the future. If I have read Jim's original post correctly, this is perhaps not the case, or maybe I misunderstood him. Can you clarify?

To make it official, here I am, checkbook open, pen hovering, holding my breath, one (1) Epic X brain please. Can I place my order?

Tom
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Stage 4 is EPIC-X Brain. Stage 4 is not EPIC-S.
 
Is there any chance that as Japan settles and production of parts actually gets to pre-tragedy levels that the price will go back down, or is this the new official longterm/lifecycle price? I was under the impression that the price increase was due almost entirely to the quake/tsunami, but if that were the case it'd end up going back down at some point (a year or so, I'd imagine)... or is that an illogical assumption?
 
Jarred Land said:
Stage 4 is EPIC-X Brain. Stage 4 is not EPIC-S.
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To add to this - if I've understood correctly from recent posts - as it stands there will effectively be a Stage 4a and a Stage 4b.
4a is for Red One owners (perhaps who weren't eligible for stage 2 or 3, or who were but want to pick up additional Epic-Xs) and 4b is for customers who do not own a Red One. 4b will ship after 4a. Obviously this is all speculative at present.
I haven't figured out the difference in process yet between stage 4b and 'business as usual', but there may be a pricing difference of $500 for brain + PL mount.
 
After reading this thread, I thought that if I was the Red team, I'd be ready to blow my brains out.

I'd just like to add my note of appreciation for the deal, the cameras, the communication and all the hard work.

Thanks guys.
 
Paul S. said:
To add to this - if I've understood correctly from recent posts - as it stands there will effectively be a Stage 4a and a Stage 4b.
4a is for Red One owners (perhaps who weren't eligible for stage 2 or 3, or who were but want to pick up additional Epic-Xs) and 4b is for customers who do not own a Red One. 4b will ship after 4a. Obviously this is all speculative at present.
I haven't figured out the difference in process yet between stage 4b and 'business as usual', but there may be a pricing difference of $500 for brain + PL mount.
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Holy Christ....the rabbit hole gets even deeper? had no idea we were into stages beyond 4....now a 4 sub a and 4 sub b ? Wow....lots of crap for REd to keep track of now.....
 
Considering it could be a red proprietary mount that is not removable that's cost is included and is not removable, I think this is much better. They give us options, but the body is still the body at least we can remove the lens mount and replace it with another, rather than having to deal with adapters for just about every lens.

It's all about perspective, I understand and get the frustration, from the customers, and from the Red team.

deep breath everyone, they will be here soon, whether you are after an epic scarlet or just a Nikon or Canon mount, when they build them we will cum, come I mean come!

have good one!
 
There is ONLY a Stage 4. No A or B. We will generally keep track of RED ONE owners but production will be rolling by then and cameras will ship quickly.

Jim
 
X-files

X-files

Did not mean to start a firestorm here.

Have 5K work, have multiple K cash, looking for a comfort zone, a delivery target of opportunity.
 
We love you back too. I guess the confusion for some was that that the Titanium PL Mount turned to be very expensive ($2000). But since it was added to the Epic-X package for free, there is not need to complain about it since we are not paying for it. RED is taking the hit by adding a $2000 Titanium PL Mount without changing the price of the stage 2 and maybe 3. Am i right?

Jarred Land said:
Hey guys.. we love you. we really do. But the bitching over the requests for us to take a hit once again and give you free mounts is starting to get really old really quick.

Take a break on this one.
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Would you buy a car but tell the dealer, "I don't have any kids so I don't need the rear seats. I see you make them removeable so people can carry lots of cargo and that's what I'd like to do. I see that the catalog lists replacement seats for $1000. Can I not take the seats and you drop $1000 off the car?"
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I think it's reasonable that the Canon mount is sold as an after market accessory seeing as it's not ready nor will be ready until months after shipping cameras... but I don't think your analogy is very good Mitch.

I bought a car 4 years ago and I got sport wheels. They didn't send me the regular wheels. I got sport seats. I didn't receive a set of extra standard seats. There was an option to get a different body kit, you don't get a crate full of the old accent pieces if you get the sport kit. In fact in the electronics industry that's kind of the norm. If you upgrade to a better video card you don't get an extra video card, you pay the price difference.

In this case that's evidently not practical, which is fine, even though if/when the FF35 camera is ever released I would want the Canon/Red-Electronic Mount. But what people are asking for also isn't unprecedented.

If I'm not mistaken it sounds like maybe in the future when the Canon mount is available people will be able to buy a camera without a mount or a mount of their choice. At that point there will become a market for lightly used PL mounts if someone wants to sell off. My reading was that the problem was with RED refunding used mounts which would cost them money, not that they necessarily needed every Epic customer to buy a PL mount to make the PL mount manufacturing economically viable. But that's just my reading, I'm as or more ignorant than the next schmoe.

As to "build to order" I don't see that being the case. It's been said over and over again "Just unscrew 4 screws and pop on the new mount!" if it's that easy I'd be happy to do that as part of unboxing my fancy new camera. Buy brain, buy mount, spend 10 minutes with an allen wrench.

It also presents an economic opportunity in the future. If the Epic costs $XX,000 and the PL mount costs $2k and the Canon were to cost $3k they could offer a "Stills Package" and charge $XX,000 + $3.5k for the trouble. The customer saves $1.5k. RED makes an extra $500. Everybody wins.
 
Dear RED: Do what you need to build your business into a raging success, so that I can continue to exchange dollars for the best imaging technology in the history of the universe and continue to get these same imaging systems serviced well into the future.

This is a business, folks, not a charity.

Gibby made a reasonable and respectful request. A reasonable discussion and explanation followed. Time to move along.

Honestly, after waiting many years since the release of RED ONE and passing on the various 3rd-party Canon mounts , I am going to be friggin ecstatic to FINALLY be able to pay up for a reliable Canon mount, backed by a company that has done an excellent job of responding to my needs as a customer. I have been waiting a long time for this opportunity.

I'll use the PL mount for features and commercials, and the Canon for docs. Life will be very, very good.
 
If the PL mount comes for FREE on Stage 2/3... what is the issue? It is free right?
 
Andrae Palmer said:
If the PL mount comes for FREE on Stage 2/3... what is the issue? It is free right?
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Exactly. Everythng else is in the end far more trouble than it is worth.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I think it's reasonable that the Canon mount is sold as an after market accessory seeing as it's not ready nor will be ready until months after shipping cameras... but I don't think your analogy is very good Mitch.
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Sorry to disagree. If it is an after-market accessory then it is an after market accessory. If those alloy wheels were not available at time of purchase should the car maker have sent you a vehicle with no wheels? You talk about an Options Package. RED doesn't offer Options Packages. They offer a camera with many built in features and then they offer accessories that you can choose to add. It is a different business model.

In fact Option Packages are an interesting example and one that bears looking at here. Most car makers have moved to this system. A few decades ago, one would pick and choose individually which optional upgrades one wished on a car. I'll take the wood trim, the sports suspension and the leather steering wheel, please. Now one must choose between several Options Packages, so that if one wants say, leather seats, one also has to pay for a host of other upgrades one mayor may not have any interest in. You don't get a choice -- if you want the leather seats, the GPS and sunroof comes with it.
 
silverculture said:
We love you back too. I guess the confusion for some was that that the Titanium PL Mount turned to be very expensive ($2000). But since it was added to the Epic-X package for free, there is not need to complain about it since we are not paying for it. RED is taking the hit by adding a $2000 Titanium PL Mount without changing the price of the stage 2 and maybe 3. Am i right?
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It was added to the Epic X package because they discontinued the aluminum mount. Yes, the upgrade is free, but if you don't need it the gesture has no meaning. They also decided to do away with the aluminium Nikon and Canon mounts and make them Titanium as well. While that has meaning, it also comes at a higher cost. In the long term, I would prefer the Titanium Nikon mount, but in the short term, the aluminium mount was my best solution.

But if there is a Nikon dumb mount to get me by until such time as I can afford the Titanium version, then I can manage.

Whatever RED does will be acceptable and there will be no feeling of being mistreated. I daresay that no one here who has advocated for the mount swap, even with paying a premium, does not appreciate what RED has done in the past and continues to do in the present.

But if we as a group had kept silent, RED would have been denied the feedback they thrive on.
 
So let's get the facts. What stages is the Titanium PL mount included for free?
 
Mitch Gross said:
Sorry to disagree. If it is an after-market accessory then it is an after market accessory. If those alloy wheels were not available at time of purchase should the car maker have sent you a vehicle with no wheels?

In fact Option Packages are an interesting example and one that bears looking at here. Most car makers have moved to this system. A few decades ago, one would pick and choose individually which optional upgrades one wished on a car.
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Touchet! There you go using my words against me. ;) Although it doesn't preclude RED from offering it in the future. They just can't offer it now since the options package options aren't ready yet.

You're also right about the second point. I just remembered that as of last year my car model no longer is completely customizable but comes in one of two packages just as you mention.

But I still think that's a good future move. Sell now as one package. Sell later as maybe a Canon, Cine and None package. Maybe charge $300 for the "no-mount" option. Then RED gets a little money and it creates a potential market for those who have superfluous lens mounts to recoupe some of their costs.
 
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