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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED DSMC Motion Mount has arrived!

KETCH ROSSi said:
Those and also the RPP 18mm will NOT be compatible with the Motion Mount.

And also you can not longer use the RED FOCUS for calibration, and that is why I am selling my RF, as the sonly other times that I might use a Standard PL Ti mount would be if I absolutely need to shoot HDRX.
Click to expand...

But as the normal PL and the motion mount is both red products and made in Ti and Magnesium with pretty high tolerance I assume that you can put on the RF and set back focus on your normal PL mount and then swap to the Motion mount and then, if nothing is broken or such get the same marks with the Motion mount.. i.e same as you would do for your canon mount or such... or? as I have never had issues going in between mounts, PL, canon, FD or even PL to another PL.

I have not tested the above so it's what I assume only.
 
Questions, I guess Phil or Probst has a good answer...

I did some tests with the motion mount the other day for a shoot on wednesday. It's a make up commercial and the girl / girls are walking the red carpet and there is photographers snapping their flashes at them. And we want high speed.

As I understand the flicker/flash thing for motion mount goes only to 75 fps or something like it ( do nt remember the exact framrate).

Anyway we did tests in my office with a 5D flash and also with a bigger unit.

To me it seams like the motion mount kind of sorts the problem but not all the way. I'm guessing here and do not know for sure, but it feels like no matter what mode I put the motion mount in it does not preform as a global shutter. Instead, as I understand it does ND down to it's fullest extent when it's "shutter" is closed but it's not a complete black out for the sensor. So that makes it very much possible to still have the half frames and such when dealing with strobes and flashes.

Or is there a setting that allows for perfect flash frames without any tearing / sensor redraw issues? In my testings, at 75fps 180 shutter and softer mode for the motion mount I found that most flashed frames looked ok but something like 1/6 or so did very much have a clear visible sensor redraw line in them and many of them did have the flash hitting harder over a part of a frame, like the bottom part and then hitting the top of the next frame.

All looks better than my testing without the mount then I got the classic pixel sharp redraw line on just about every frame so the motion mount softened the issue but for sure did not do what I had hopes for, i.e work like a global shutter with soft / sine wave feel.

So if please if any one can shim in it would be great. I'm hoping that I overlooked something but when thinking of what the motion mount actually is I kind of understand the above behaviour as it would be pretty much impossible for the flicker glass to completely black out the sensor for the redraw time all it can do I guess is to ND down to the max when the redraw line is in frame and open up smoothly in between. But the closer can only be maxed out to the potential of the motion mount which is 8 stops... I'm assuming.

So without any other solution I'm thinking that we should light the set quite high so the difference between the flashes and the fill light is not too many stops and then grade down in post and pull contrast until the flashes looks good. And I'm not to worried about flashes going over two frames and creating sort of half frames as there will be so many flashes that it will not really show anyway.

But any tips or hints are much welcome, I only had time to fiddle for a short time. Will upload some frames to show later if that is to any help.
 
Björn Benckert said:
But any tips or hints are much welcome, I only had time to fiddle for a short time. Will upload some frames to show later if that is to any help.
Click to expand...

Whelp. I only tested various Canon flashes and antique flash guns. So that's all I "know" works. Pages 16 and 18 in the Motion Mount Manual have the Strobe Safe Shutter Angles for both Soft and Square Shutter Modes.

I'll setup my Profoto kit and do some tests perhaps. I have a general idea of the strobe duration on this kit at various power levels. That might be part of the equation here.
 
Björn Benckert said:
But as the normal PL and the motion mount is both red products and made in Ti and Magnesium with pretty high tolerance I assume that you can put on the RF and set back focus on your normal PL mount and then swap to the Motion mount and then, if nothing is broken or such get the same marks with the Motion mount.. i.e same as you would do for your canon mount or such... or? as I have never had issues going in between mounts, PL, canon, FD or even PL to another PL.

I have not tested the above so it's what I assume only.
Click to expand...

There is no need to do any Back Focus adjustment when going from the PL Ti Motion Mount to the PL Ti Mount, but some times with critical focus shots using purely laser and or tape measurements with the lens markings is important that the lenses used are checked against the back focus and calibrated properly, if you already know that the lenses are calibrated and their focus markings correct, then back focus needs to be adjusted, just that with the RED MOTION MOUNT you can not longer use the RED FOCUS.

e had several issues with my set of Master Primes, and had done back focus adjustment several times back and fourth with other lenses such as the Leica Summilux Cine Primes, and then finally found out that the MP's were never calibrated, we were charged at each traveling return were the lab was not doing anything to the lenses, finally I found out and set the Back Focus to the properly calibrated Master Primes and it was also perfect on the Leica and Ultra's.

So, it is important that the lenses are calibrated first, then go to the Back Focus adjustment as needed.
 
"There is no need to do any Back Focus adjustment when going from the PL Ti Motion Mount to the PL Ti Mount...."

If you want your markings to be accurate then there is a need to adjust, because the back focus is affected.
 
I'm with Brian on this... ANY piece of glass or gel filter placed behind the lens affects the back focus. This is known to ACs around the world to be true and is also true with the Motion Mount, as I have stated several times in this very thread.
 
Could the motion mount be of benefit in speed ramping? Right now when you ramp to a frame rate with a faster shutter speed you need to already be in your target shutter speed or else you get an exposure shift. Could the ND of the motion mount be used to offset this?
 
Phil Holland said:
Whelp. I only tested various Canon flashes and antique flash guns. So that's all I "know" works. Pages 16 and 18 in the Motion Mount Manual have the Strobe Safe Shutter Angles for both Soft and Square Shutter Modes.

I'll setup my Profoto kit and do some tests perhaps. I have a general idea of the strobe duration on this kit at various power levels. That might be part of the equation here.
Click to expand...


We shoot tomorrow 7.00 am europe time and I'm have to little time to upload the test frames tonight, but I'm please with what we got even though my testings did not show result of a perfect "global shutter" at the frame rates we where testing (50fps and 75fps). I find it more to be like a heavily pumping ND but not something that blocks light to 100%.


KETCH ROSSi said:
There is no need to do any Back Focus adjustment when going from the PL Ti Motion Mount to the PL Ti Mount, but some times with critical focus shots using purely laser and or tape measurements with the lens markings is important that the lenses used are checked against the back focus and calibrated properly, if you already know that the lenses are calibrated and their focus markings correct, then back focus needs to be adjusted, just that with the RED MOTION MOUNT you can not longer use the RED FOCUS.

e had several issues with my set of Master Primes, and had done back focus adjustment several times back and fourth with other lenses such as the Leica Summilux Cine Primes, and then finally found out that the MP's were never calibrated, we were charged at each traveling return were the lab was not doing anything to the lenses, finally I found out and set the Back Focus to the properly calibrated Master Primes and it was also perfect on the Leica and Ultra's.

So, it is important that the lenses are calibrated first, then go to the Back Focus adjustment as needed.
Click to expand...

Also you can go the other way around first set your cameraback focus using the RF and then and shim your lenses to collimate them correctly using the calibrated camera as your measuring tool. Works very well.


Christopher Probst said:
I'm with Brian on this... ANY piece of glass or gel filter placed behind the lens affects the back focus. This is known to ACs around the world to be true and is also true with the Motion Mount, as I have stated several times in this very thread.
Click to expand...

But my guess would be that red took the glas behind lens in account when setting the back focus distance so that it is equal to what you get with the normal PL. In other words swaping in between a camera with a good back focus for your normal PL would I assume (or at least it was the case with the camera I tested) . In other words if your back focus is calibrated on your normal PL mount then you should be quite safe to swap back and forth with your Motion mount without having to worry about your focus marks... or is that not the case for you Christopher?
 
Christopher Probst said:
I'm with Brian on this... ANY piece of glass or gel filter placed behind the lens affects the back focus. This is known to ACs around the world to be true and is also true with the Motion Mount, as I have stated several times in this very thread.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this. I though the motion mount was engineered to have it's glass taken into account. At least we could just swap between MM mount and the normal mount and our marks where dead on. Our AC was worried that it would be off so we double checked it...
 
Björn Benckert said:
Are you sure about this. I though the motion mount was engineered to have it's glass taken into account. At least we could just swap between MM mount and the normal mount and our marks where dead on. Our AC was worried that it would be off so we double checked it...
Click to expand...

Adding anything behind the lens will change back focus, this was accounted for in the design of the motion mount.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
I'll be honest and say I'm sorry I missed my chance to buy a Tessive filter.
Click to expand...

I'm actually pleased as a pickle to have this technology behind the lens, using the camera power, and integrated into the camera's feature set. One of the larger advantages to the Motion Mount for me is the concept of putting the camera up on a lightweight jib or something like the Movi and having that control/freedom. No real size or weight gains, which is fantastic.

I will say this for those who haven't used one just yet. The Motion Mount is more than just a mechanical mount, it's a sensitive optical/electric device. It's very simple to use, but read the manual and learn the ins and outs of this thing. Also, read up on proper cleaning and care.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'm actually pleased as a pickle to have this technology behind the lens, using the camera power, and integrated into the camera's feature set. One of the larger advantages to the Motion Mount for me is the concept of putting the camera up on a lightweight jib or something like the Movi and having that control/freedom. No real size or weight gains, which is fantastic.

I will say this for those who haven't used one just yet. The Motion Mount is more than just a mechanical mount, it's a sensitive optical/electric device. It's very simple to use, but read the manual and learn the ins and outs of this thing. Also, read up on proper cleaning and care.
Click to expand...


Agree 100%+... ;)
 
The biggest plus for me is, now I don't need to change out little ND filters on my Long lenses by taking out the little tray and unscrewing and screwing while I watch my shot go away…Or changing the DoF while still shooting in just a moment.. Yeahhooooo
Motion Mount is one of the most valuable items when I out shooting with a long lens on.
Thank you Red again...
 
Russ Fill said:
The biggest plus for me is, now I don't need to change out little ND filters on my Long lenses by taking out the little tray and unscrewing and screwing while I watch my shot go away…Or changing the DoF while still shooting in just a moment.. Yeahhooooo
Motion Mount is one of the most valuable items when I out shooting with a long lens on.
Thank you Red again...
Click to expand...

Bah. You just reminded me that I need to bump up the RPP 300mm T2.9 on my list of things to gather. Great point on this front.
 
I'm close to pull the trigger on a Motion Mount, but i just wanted to ask you guys what you think about it now, after some time has passed.

Does it stay always on camera? Do you really use the different shutter-modes all the time or is it "just" a electronic ND? Are there any major drawbacks to keep in mind? The light loss is obvious, but how much does that concern you? (I don't have a Dragon yet.)

Just want to know if my expectations are too high. ;)
 
it stays on my camera all the time. i mostly done sports with it and i love the shutter modes and NDs that it gives you. I mostly use Canon mount as of my style of the shooting but i own the PL mount as well and when i rent my camera to drone guys they always say "strip the camera right down but please put the MM mount on". for them its something they need to have as before it was really hard to do all the balancing and changing filters,... now its just a click of a button and specially while mid air - you cant always set the exposure on the ground perfectly
 
Uros Zuraj said:
it stays on my camera all the time. i mostly done sports with it and i love the shutter modes and NDs that it gives you. I mostly use Canon mount as of my style of the shooting but i own the PL mount as well and when i rent my camera to drone guys they always say "strip the camera right down but please put the MM mount on". for them its something they need to have as before it was really hard to do all the balancing and changing filters,... now its just a click of a button and specially while mid air - you cant always set the exposure on the ground perfectly
Click to expand...

Have you had any issues with the backfocus when you switched between PL mount and the Canon mount? (I have a standard PL mount on my camera but just ordered a Canon MM.)
 
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