October 30th Announcement Feedback

[David Swan]

No, the fixed Scarlet has (Had) 5 ribs on the body, Interchangeable Scarlets have 3 this has 4, ergo it's an Epic.
Dave

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Fixed Scarlet35?

 

[Nils Ruinet]

HAY YOU GUYZ... I think we might be forgetting something... room for one last change? ;-)

http://gizmodo.com/5090769/superspeed-usb-30-spec-finalized-its-fast

Well, then while you're at it, why not this one ?
http://techresearch.intel.com/articles/None/1813.htm

 

[Stephen Smith]

Jim,

Approximately how long do you think it will take before the Scarlet S35 and FF35 models are released? I understand your staging program for the epic and you mentioned 6 months. Does the S35 become available stage 4? I am trying to gauge the general amount of time and money it will take to purchase my S35.

I have to admit I am somewhat saddened by the delay because I was ready to elevate from the data management level and join the ranks of owner/operator. There are alot of films in the Detroit area right now (many of them Red) and I have been ready to get my own Red working. I do however understand your goals and realize your choices are for the greater good.

Thank you for your vision and keeping us informed!

Best,

Stephen

 

[Harry Clark]

Man LDS sure creates drama every time it is brought up

Just to clear the air.. . There is no bad blood between Arri and RED.. Arri has given us the protocol and they are being very supportive. We like Arri.. they make great stuff and have always been very respectful.

There are no secret motivation at play here.. I put LDS on Epic because a good chunk of our customers swear by it... it is as simple as that

Did not mean to imply there was bad blood. I am as excited as anyone else. Reread my first post. I was WONDERING. Not ACCUSING or HOWLING.
Just curious. Glad that Arri has chosen to give out the protocol. My response to Jay was to clarify that ZEISS makes lenses, not ARRI.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Harry Clark]

Speaking for 1st AC's everywhere...how is this a good thing? Another career being replaced by technology. I say get rid of that feature so I can pay the mortgage, or buy more RED's.

AND...
Who in the world is going to be "touching" the touch screen? It will be a first AC, or focus puller. I expect that someone will have the job of focus FAR into the foreseeable future, regardless of technology. We didn't fire AC's when Prestons or Cinetapes or laser tapes came out.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Thommes Ulfeng]

No, the fixed Scarlet has (Had) 5 ribs on the body, Interchangeable Scarlets have 3 this has 4, ergo it's an Epic.
Dave

Good observation. Thanks for that. I will reset my speculation counter for now :smile5:

tic...toc Nov.30 is not so far away.

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

Probably not for you, If Jesper Sichlau is your real name.

Easy pal. You're right - I won't, because I don't own a Red One. And no, Jesper Sichlau is not my real name... I'm a criminal mastermind, my real name is Sweet_Puppy16 unfortunately no one believes me so I have to make up this stupid name.

But I really think it is weird that we don't know what Red will want with them? Can they use some of the hardware for other cameras or will they be destroyed?

 

[Jarred Land]

I think what Jarred is referring to is there is a small mic on the front of the gunner! Hence why it connects with the two wires to body. There is also extending grip, and hand grip that looks like it is adjustable. It may also convert to a rocket launcher for those working in hazardous places

I suspect that this must be part of the fixed package or as an option.

no that is a different mic in the gunner.. The snap in mic is much more low profile and hugs the body.

Hi Jarred. Does Red have plans on making the 8x lens a separate lens for the detachable body? I think all of us shooters who do run and gun docs would kill for such a thing. I want the 2/3 detachable so I can plug some long canon lenses on for wildlife.

Down the road I would love to see you guys make a killer 14x lens that starts wide for 2/3.

If the fixed lens scarlet is done, why not throw it into the beta pool now. I know you want to reward the red owners first, so i can see holding off a bit. Also seems t recall the ASIC's are not done. Still I hope there is an option for some non red owners to buy them in Beta stage (if there is a beta stage). I'm heading to Africa for a 2 month shoot soon, and wish I had one. Ship to Kenya, I'm the house next to the hippo pool, third acacia tree to the left.

The LENS is done.. not the entire camera . And unfortunately the 8x lens cannot be mounted on the removable 2/3rds... when you see the photos you will understand why.

 

[Craig Schober]

Ya, interesting, but what is enough? If you want a good beta program, bigger is better ... if you want a fast beta program ... bigger is faster. I think they should produce as many as they can sell ... If someone wants to shell out $28000 for something that might not work, and is delivered in dribs and drabs ... I want that guy on my team! He's a player ... do I want to lose him to Panasonic? Unless of course the Epic is almost perfect now, with just minor fine tuning required. But you cannot ignore the law of large numbers ... for a beta program ... bigger is always better. You need tons of guys testing workflow and developing software ... perhaps on LINUX ... the job is never done ... you want people sending in results 24/7. If they had 6000 Epic beta testers, (at $28000 a pop, people who had already signed away their right to complain, and trade in their RED ONE) what business in their right mind would shut the doors on that?

it might be a beta program but it's a beta program for professional cameras and their operators. if red opened it up to everyone, they would have no customers left. why is that bad? because as soon as you open the testing group up to others, they run out and start using your beta cameras on professional shoots. then the problems really start to accumulate and red gets a black eye just through word of mouth. tattoo is designed to be a select group for a reason. red is not catering to a software market where millions of units will be sold. digital cinema cameras is a very small market so the beta group size should reflect that.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

no that is a different mic in the gunner.. The snap in mic is much more low profile and hugs the body.



The LENS is done.. not the entire camera. And unfortunately the lens cannot be mounted on the removable 2/3rds... when you see the photos you will understand why.

Hey Jarred, just wanted to thank you for being so upfront and responsive these last couple of days. I guess you were also eager to be able to share some of the incredible stuff you guys have been working on.

It looks like none of you at RED have given up on making the best camera technology allows. That's the real revolution. The rest (pricing, delays, market segmenting) is really details.

:cheers2:

 

[Jarred Land]

Hey Jarred, just wanted to thank you for being so upfront and responsive these last couple of days.
:cheers2:

My pleasure...

 

[Andrew M.]

Secondly, the mankind does not know how to detect (the direction of) gravitation from an accelerating/deaccelerating body. Adding this with the fact that an error of 1/1000 of gravitation (that is 1/100 m/s^2) results in an error of 4.5m in (integration of) position in 30s. All this does not leave that much space for hopes.

Well, somehow they are figuring it out on recent military or high end helicopters.
I guess they use a special mode of GPS as a aiding factor to do it.
Helicopter could be put hovering dead in spot on autopilot.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi,

Red seem to be valuing cameras at $8,500 for the purpose of STAGE 2, expect less than that when Scarlet S35 hits the shelves.

The market will ultimately decide what used (and executed) RED One bodies sell for. However, I disagree on your point above. It's true there is an $8500 reduction, but that is not a direct indication of how the camera body is valued. One could argue that RED values it even less than that, given the freely included modules given in the Stage 1 thru 3 "reward" program. Or that RED even values it a lot higher since they are willing to take back so many of them in trade toward Epic.

Anyway this is not the proper thread for this discussion.

 

[Darren Orange]

Hey Jarred,
Has all the other upgrade paths been scrapped, for example EPIC 645 (Brain only) from RED ONE? Just wondering because before the announcement on the 30th this was an option, just wondering if that still is. Thanks!

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Hey Jarred,
Has all the other upgrade paths been scrapped, for example EPIC 645 (Brain only) from RED ONE? Just wondering because before the announcement on the 30th this was an option, just wondering if that still is. Thanks!

Darren, this has been answered by Jim in the last post of the announcement thread. In short: give them a few days to work things out.

 

[Michael Dalton]

no that is a different mic in the gunner.. The snap in mic is much more low profile and hugs the body.

The LENS is done.. not the entire camera . And unfortunately the 8x lens cannot be mounted on the removable 2/3rds... when you see the photos you will understand why.

Thanks! Is not possible to use all the technology of the 8x guts and turn it into a mounting lens? I know it sounds easy, but is probably really complex. I'm just really keen to use RED's zoom glass.

Thanks for the update that the lens is ready, but not the camera.

PLEASE POST THE PHOTOS WHEN YOU can, be amazing to see what the camera entails. :emote_happyhappy:

 

[Darren Orange]

Thanks Steven!

Darren, this has been answered by Jim in the last post of the announcement thread. In short: give them a few days to work things out.

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

Thanks Red for the generous offer. No other company has done this kind of offer and push the limits as I think Red is doing. You guys are listening and making history.

Being said this, after the oct. 30th announcement and 72 pages in this thread, a lot of important questions that have been asked still haven't been answered. I don't worry as I know Red will take care and eventually give more details, but at this point it is very difficult to make a decision.

My take as a Red Owner (and a really happy one, but still paying debts) is that I'd love to go on option 3. But for now I know that in order to get a "similar" equipment to my actual Red in Epic version, is going to cost much more than $10,500. I say "similar" because Epix already is a great improvement, with many features that we don't even know what they are. But at this point I have a Red with canon mount and electronic follow focus, with 4 mini xlr inputs and some additional power sources. I can go tripod with the Allstar dovetail or switch to handheld easily. Use my hardrive and all the Red accesories I have, including a mattbox.

The option 3 is a great help from Red to transfer to the new system, but what it'll make me move into Epic, will clearly be how much Extra $$ will cost to have a "similar" system to the one I have. I can barely make numbers yet.

At this point my numbers are impossible to do.

So far I have,

$10,500.-
500.- for canon mount
Will I need the pro module for sound? or just with the standard is equivalent to what I have now on my Red one. another question asked many times, but still no answer, if we need the Pro module, will we have to pay $2,950 or will there be a special deal for the upgrade option and take the pro instead of the standard?

How much it will cost to "recycle" our Red drive? Do we need to buy extra modules? How about mounting the EVF? top rods, lower rods? All those small things keep adding $ like crazy. i have a Red one and know that for a fact. How about mounting the red batteries and or other batteries like switronix that we have?

How about mounting the Epic X on tripod and go to shoulder mount. I really don't think we'll be able to use the Allstar dovetail. Am I wrong?

In the photos there is a Red Follow Focus. Will it be something like Impero or will it be just to use with Red lenses? For all the Canon Lens users, how much will impact this transition into having a system like the one we have now?

At this point, based on my experience I don't think I will be able to make the transfer from my Red to the Epic-X for less than $20,000 with option 3. But the good thing is that we have many options. If I can't get the extra cash to upgrade to the Epic X I might updgrade just the sensor, or stay as I am, a really happy Red owner.

Regarding the whole DSMC system. I love the concept, but with all due respect I am quite skeptical that I can do the transition into Red system. It will cost me a lot of money. And there are many many questions yet to answer. If for me to upgrade to the Epic-X might end up being maybe up to $10,500 to $20,000. Making my Epic be a good still camera, it will cost a lot more. Just a simple math tells me, that I can't use the Red EVF for still photography so I will need to buy the Bomb EVF ($3,200) plus many other accesories. Maybe because I am so used to using canon cameras, but I really like to know how is it going to feel to take photos with the bomb EVF. It is a completely different way of doing photography.

As for photo specs, I would have many questions. Will we be able to use let's say a Canon ETTL flash with the Red? What kind of Flash system could we use on the Epic? ETTL is such a standard for a while. We know nothing about that on the Epic. The whole touch screen focus system sounds amazingly interesting, but in real world photography I need to see the use of it. I need much more information. The flash synch is a pretty good option, but what happens when you are in a conference with a bunch of journalist and every one is just blasting their flashes? Will there be rolling shutter effect or can we use our Epic as a Canon 7D in those enviroments? I dont have any doubt that Epic-X will perform amazingly taking photos of landscapes, but how good will be in all terrains? Journalist, events, studio. As much as we can criticize Canon, their camera bodies and lenses are really good, with a lot of experience and proven being great for many years. Same as I am a really happy Red customer, I am a really happy Canon customer. it is true that they have screwed up a lot of people with their upgrades program. but it is in the terms of $1700 to $3000 that those bodies go for. With the Epic, brains and accessories, we are talking about a different league. Let;s wait for the Scarlet announcement and compare.

Ergonomics on the Epic - X for photography, I still need to see how it works. So for me, if I updgrade to Epic-X is basically for the motion part, for still it is not an option so far. ($3,200 for the EVf plus the side photo handle , plus how many more, red gunner?) right now for just $1,700 I can get a 7D body that I can start shooting. So for me the happy 1 world of photo/video as of today is not there yet. Maybe for someone that doesn't have a canon/nikon system might be a good investment, but with those prices I could get 2 7ds for the price of a bomb EVF. It is true that it may be a pain to carry both, the epic and the canon, but it is just the body and few batterys. So when I think about it, it is just like an extra Red module.

I don't want to sound harsh with this post. I love Red, their options, their philosophy, and pretty much everything. red allowed me to make work that I couldn't imagine before. But I just need more information to make a decision. Hopefully it will come with time.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Well, somehow they are figuring it out on recent military or high end helicopters.

Military side have optical gyros. Photons have mass and when you one gets light to "circulate" it's technically a rather ideal gyro. The best of what one can think of at this point. Small and light MEMS-sensors is a different story.

Distincting gravitation from other mechanical forces applying on massive bodies is a scientific question. There's no answer to that one, but that's another story.