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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No excuse for 5K@24P on Scarlet

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Tommi Lähdesmäki said:
Majtan look here,

4096*2160*30 = 265 420 800
5120*2700*19 = 262 656 000
5120*2160*24 = 265 420 800

So we get more than 1350 (v).

I posted a chart earlier post #28
Click to expand...

Yes Tommi - I am aware of that. In fact I would even prefer 4.75K with higher vertical at 24P. The H/V combinations are too many to count. I was only posting those numbers to simplify the logic upon which this request is made. So to double the frame-rate I halved the vertical resolution of the existing 5K mode on the Scarlet. This was because so many here are having hard time comprehending the simple math. That is also why I wrote "So to extremely simplify what we are asking for"...
In no way I want that particular ratio. It was just an example how this works...

Peter
 
So Tommi - without exceeding the CURRENT HARDWARE LIMITATIONS of the Scarlet I am asking for these new modes:

5Kws: 5120 x 2142 2.39:1
- Epic max fps: 150
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-DCI: 4558 x 2412 DCI or 1.89:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-HD: 4434 x 2494 HD or 1.77:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

I know (some elitist) Epic owners hate me, but hey - they seems to be pissed off with everything these days without much weight to their cries....

Peter
:reddevil:
 
I have just checked on the Epic and it indeed already has "5K WS" mode with 5120 x 2160 resolution...
So all we need is for this mode to be enabled on Scarlet - since the Scarlet current HW will support this mode at (up to) 24P.
The reason why this is significant is that fact that no additional coding is necessary - the code is already there. Just copy and paste into the Scarlet build...

Peter
:reddevil:

PS: Ironically the current release version of the RED SCARLET-X OPERATION GUIDE - BUILD 3.2 includes on the page 77 resolutions from the EPIC operation guide and on the page 78 the REDCODE options for EPIC instead of the appropriate SCARLET specs. This is for sure a small oversight - but indeed very ironical given this raging debate, to the point of "in our face"... ;o)
 
Peter Majtan said:
Adam, just to point a small detail - 2.39:1 wide aspect ratio is main acquisition and mastering format for theatrical distribution (cinema), as such they really do not relate to PAL/NTSC broadcast.
I just do not know of any PAL/NTSC originally destined project to be shot in such a wide-screen ratio. So I do not think that 5K wide-screen has much weight for PAL/NTSC debate...

Having said that - by all means - if they can squeeze that out, why not... Just pointing the obvious - 5K @ 24P/25P is not possible, 5Kws @ 25P might be - just do not see much use for it...

Peter
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree Peter, but 25p is far more useful than 24p, its not about PAL standards etc

Audio can be slowed down/resampled inperceivably to get to sync'd 24p, without nasty frame interpolation etc.

25p also converts to 30fps easier

25fps is the most useful framerate for internationally destined releases, shooting 24p is not a good idea for such projects, at any aspect ratio

aspect ratios can be optimized for different releases

4.5k/5k@ 25fps 2:1 would be cool

I have no use for 24fps personally
 
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5K WS would be soooo cool.
C'mon, if the hardware is capable(and it seems that way), why not?
Please, allow the hardware to shine!
Even if we get it, I'm still buying an Epic for sure.
At those prices...
 
I have updated my first post (so people do not have to search through the pages of this thread.
It reflects also a small correction whereby previously I have assumed that Epic can capture 5K at 120 fps. It does - but only in the WS mode that I am ironically asking for...

Go figure...
 
I think Red is in a bit of a pickle right now over the dragon update, because they have stated that a dragon update would be more expesive for Scarlet than Epic, i.e more than $6k. I would rather trade in/sell my Scarlet and get an Epic with the option of a Dragon update in the future, than spend the price of a new M-X Scarlet (or more) to upgrade my current Scarlet....it just doesen't make sense(depending on what the specs of a Scarlet Dragon would be). I think a free firmware upgrade for Scarlet to get closer to Epic specs would be hard for Red to explain to their Epic customers particulary after the massive hit they took after rhe price reduction. It's a though nut to crack for Red, but as always I am confident that they will come up with a great solution.
 
Like I said, as an Epic owner, I have no problem the Scarlet gets Red One Equivalent 4.5K 25/24p as well as Red One Equivalent 2K 120fps. If I had a Scarlet I would be happy with this. This was the Scarlet specs I wanted before I went with the Epic. I'm well aware of the competition and as a Red Owner I want the company to succeed in order to have the funds to keep growing and keep its current business model. I want Red to have more money for sensor research and modules and accessories development. The more Scarlets out there, the more people using Red, the more everything will improve. Either that or go back and scale down operations and concentrate on the high end, like Ferrari. As long as they keep the passionate, boundaries breaking approach, I'm in. Just want them to be viable- its a win win situation for all of us in the first scenario!
 
Sergio Perez said:
Like I said, as an Epic owner, I have no problem the Scarlet gets Red One Equivalent 4.5K 25/24p as well as Red One Equivalent 2K 120fps. If I had a Scarlet I would be happy with this. This was the Scarlet specs I wanted before I went with the Epic. I'm well aware of the competition and as a Red Owner I want the company to succeed in order to have the funds to keep growing and keep its current business model. I want Red to have more money for sensor research and modules and accessories development. The more Scarlets out there, the more people using Red, the more everything will improve. Either that or go back and scale down operations and concentrate on the high end, like Ferrari. As long as they keep the passionate, boundaries breaking approach, I'm in. Just want them to be viable- its a win win situation for all of us in the first scenario!
Click to expand...

The voice of reason.
 
guys between dragon and firmware updates I am sure the Scarlet will continue to improve, its more a matter of time then a question of when. look at the legacy support they offered the red one! between that and the upgrade path I am sure you can figure out one way or another to get whatever it is you need aspect ratio/frame rate wise

that or sell for an epic, or trade brains... i mean you got all the parts anyway all you need is the epic brain to start
 
my vote goes foe enabling (if technically possible ) , less redcode compression

to me 3:1 versus 6:1 in many situation does the world of difference

g
 
What would be really cool (btw I am not sure if it's possible) is rather than just give us preset aspect ratios at set resolutions and frame rates, the camera just has limit on data through put and allows the user to manually input any combination of aspect ratios, frame rates and compression amount and the camera calculates whether it's possible.

P.s I don't expect this just think it would be sweet!
 
With the amount of whining in this thread, I'm sure some of you could have spent your time DPing or renting instead, making 10k for a body difference.
RED doesnt cater to the non go-getters if you havent noticed. Nor should they.
 
David W. Jones said:
You know, this is like buying a Ferrari street car and saying that there is no reason Ferrari shouldn't give you the same performance available on their Formula 1 race cars.
Click to expand...

What if Ferrari did not tell you (for obvious reasons), that your street car has the same engine as the formula 1 car with some modifications???
 
Pablo Moreno said:
What if Ferrari did not tell you (for obvious reasons), that your street car has the same engine as the formula 1 car with some modifications???
Click to expand...

As someone who has driven both Ferrari street cars and race cars, I have to ask... What's your point?

I just don't get people who buy camera X knowing damn well what they are getting, and then whining about it not having the features of camera Y. Or buying camera X for a yet to be determined future upgrade, rather than a camera that meets your shooting needs now. If the tools you use now do not fulfill your clients expectations, then get tools that do!

Seriously, there are people on this board that can shoot masterpieces with a Playskool camera.
 
David W. Jones said:
As someone who has driven both Ferrari street cars and race cars, I have to ask... What's your point?

I just don't get people who buy camera X knowing damn well what they are getting, and then whining about it not having the features of camera Y. Or buying camera X for a yet to be determined future upgrade, rather than a camera that meets your shooting needs now. If the tools you use now do not fulfill your clients expectations, then get tools that do!

Seriously, there are people on this board that can shoot masterpieces with a Playskool camera.
Click to expand...

seriously, the most interesting man in the world must have something better to do then reading this thread about the poor wanting another handout......
 
If scarlet hardware is capable at shooting 5K WS at 24fps, I'm sure RED will allow this some day when it fit's in to there business model. When Sony releases a 5K camera for a ton of cash then a cool scarlet firmware will appear :)
 
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