Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No excuse for 5K@24P on Scarlet

Status
Not open for further replies.
Peter Majtan

Peter Majtan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
3,986
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Tokyo, Japan
Website
www.petermajtan.com
Given all the recent posts about why 5K is so much better then 4K for 4K content creation, why not allow the Scarlet to capture 5K wide-screen at 24P?

Many have here proven that the bandwidth is there for 5K at 2.39:1 wide-screen to be captured at 24P.
But even if somehow there really was an issue with the data throughput - the solution is obvious:

Make it little less then 5K - like 4.9Kws, or 4.75Kws, or even 4.5Kws (wide-screen) mode!

- any oversampling will dramatically improve the final image quality for delivery
- extra angle on our wide lenses...
- the RED ONE has 4.5Kws mode - so clearly we are not locked into "full K only"

But I (as many others here) still believe that 5Kws @ 24P is possible
- same goes for 4Kws-HDRx @ 24P... (or at the very least 3840x1606 HDRx @ 24P) plus 4Kws @ 48P (or 3840x1606 @ 48P)
- same goes for 2Kws @ 120P and 3Kws @ 60P

Jim, pretty please...

Peter
:reddevil:



Update 1:
I have done the detailed calculations and here are the modes that Scarlet is capable of:

5Kws: 5120 x 2142 2.39:1 (Please read the Update 2 bellow)
- Epic max fps: 120
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-DCI: 4558 x 2412 DCI or 1.89:1
- Epic max fps: 120 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-HD: 4434 x 2494 HD or 1.77:1
- Epic max fps: 120 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24



Update 2:
I have checked with the Epic and it actually has a "5K WS" format albeit at a different (larger) vertical resolution:

5K WS: 5120 x 2160 2.39:1 (well actually 2.37:1)
- Epic max fps: 120
- Scarlet max fps: 24

Ironically this mode fits exactly into the maximum data throughput of Scarlet at exactly 24P:
4096 x 2160 x 30 (current max on Scarlet) = 265.420.800 and therefore 265.420.800 / 5120 / 2160 = 24

This also means that the necessary coding has already been done and all it needs is literarily the proverbial "copy & paste" into the Scarlet firmware build and some testing...
 
Adam, just to point a small detail - 2.39:1 wide aspect ratio is main acquisition and mastering format for theatrical distribution (cinema), as such they really do not relate to PAL/NTSC broadcast.
I just do not know of any PAL/NTSC originally destined project to be shot in such a wide-screen ratio. So I do not think that 5K wide-screen has much weight for PAL/NTSC debate...

Having said that - by all means - if they can squeeze that out, why not... Just pointing the obvious - 5K @ 24P/25P is not possible, 5Kws @ 25P might be - just do not see much use for it...

Peter
 
Brigham Edgar said:
mmmmm...think you'll find the answer in Jim's threads...buy an Epic.
Click to expand...

That is clearly not the answer to this at all. While I hope to buy my own Epic brain soon - I would still want my Scarlet to provide this frame-rate / resolution combo to better match with the Epic and to provide better source image for post.
The issue is that this is clearly possible with the given HW - it only requires firmware to be written.
RED - I hope - is clearly not a company that will not "allow" functions capable on a given HW just to separate from other product models...

PS: Never mind those who simply can not afford Epic - right? :reddevil:
 
It's been covered dozens and dozens of times before over various threads over the last 12 months. It's hardware limited and what it's got us what it's got...flat out. There might be a distant chance one day they may make the code more efficient and be able to squeeze it, like they did the R1 to 4.5 but I have never ever read anywhere that 5K was going to happen or is possible. And even if I missed it, which is of course likely, they have made it clear there needs to be a very clear defining line between cameras. I own both EPIC and Scarlet and they cut beautifully together despite the 1K less resolution and I think personally that 90% of people would never see the difference...but hey, that's another topic:)
 
With other companies releasing 4K cameras and Red saying you need 5K capture to produce good 4K it will be interesting to see what happens with Scarlet.
 
We need REAL 4K output, then: 4.5K- 24/25/30 fps (or 5K -24/25/30) and 2K - 96/120 fps.
If it works on RED-ONE, Why not on SCARLET-X?
Now, I don't need Epic or Dragon upgrade, I need a competitive Scarlet-X (just a firmware upgrade)!
This is the truth. everything else... is "4K marketing".
 
Brigham Edgar said:
It's been covered dozens and dozens of times before over various threads over the last 12 months. It's hardware limited and what it's got us what it's got...flat out. There might be a distant chance one day they may make the code more efficient and be able to squeeze it, like they did the R1 to 4.5 but I have never ever read anywhere that 5K was going to happen or is possible. And even if I missed it, which is of course likely, they have made it clear there needs to be a very clear defining line between cameras. I own both EPIC and Scarlet and they cut beautifully together despite the 1K less resolution and I think personally that 90% of people would never see the difference...but hey, that's another topic:)
Click to expand...

You - and many others - are completely missing the point - no offense...

I understand the Scarlet is flat out (or close to be anyway) - I am not asking for any "boost" to the HW specs. You really need to read my post properly.
All I am asking is a picture mode within the current HW specs that allows for 5K @ 24P - sacrificing vertical resolution...

Peter
 
Tobias Ashenheim said:
I really think scarlet 4.5K should be enabled, since its so much more expensive than R1.. which seems like the better spec'd camera now. its just a paradox that needs correction.
Click to expand...

Tobias, this really has nothing to do with either Epic nor RED ONE.
I (and I think RED as well) do not believe in spec-ing HW based on product lineup. This is SONY or CANON territory.
RED designs the HW to fit the lineup in the first place.

This mode should be enabled not because of what ever relation/comparison there is with RED ONE (or EPIC), but because the Scarlet is simply capable of doing it...

Peter
 
The Scarlet is priced and spec'ed as it is.

Kinda...

And sold "as is" . No surprises there.

IF red can/choose to make it mor pal-land friendly, they'd probably sell a bunch more.
 
James T Mather said:
Then why buy an Epic if the Scarlet matches it?
Click to expand...

Scarlet would top out at 5Kws @ 24P - where Epic is only just warming up - since it can do it at 96P - that is 4x faster. According to Your "logic" Scarlet should be therefore able to do 5K @ 30P at least if price is the criteria... :banghead:

Please re-read properly my original post...

Peter
 
I don't think it's a matter of camera model distinction, price difference etc.
RED believes in and keeps promoting 4K delivery.
But Scarlet can't do it.
It would make complete sense to give it at least 4.5K (WS). Scarlet right now is not up to RED's vision (and yet it rocks big time).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top