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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No excuse for 5K@24P on Scarlet

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BRANDON JAMESON said:
Yes indeed......Satisfied with our choices and educated about the brain we purchased, not the one we wished we had.
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Errrr nope....I'm already that guy as a scarlet owner. Are you guys that shocked that we ask for new features though? Can you really blame us considering the company RED and how it's percieved and has operated since its birth? My original post was referring to the way a lot of EPIC guys carry on.

Would it be awesome if the scarlet was enabled to shoot 4.5 WS!? Shit yeah it would! Is it possible? Probably!! Will EPIC guys ever get over that notion? It seems not.
 
wow...seems like a lot of people still feel very strange about their pride an joy somewhat cut down by 50%...which never happened....or maybe it is fear creeping out now that the riffraff might be able to afford the same camera...oh god no!
this is not a bentley vs VW thing, nobody is asking for the virgin harvested lizzard foreskin seat covers in a jetta....just like sane people don't expect their bentleys to get more then 12mpg downhill on the way home.....
IF (big IF since the only people really in the know are the ones holding all the cards) the scarlet can do 5K/24fps or 5Kws or 4.5Kws then this would be the time for RED to come out and enable it.....
the price drops have made the epic much more interesting, the BT R1 the best deal ever and the scarlet a great camera a little out of sync with the other 2.....
making the scarlet a real 5K camera would mean a LOT of business for RED, a LOT of still people need the 5K to pull the stills and the 5K video would almost be free at that point....(wedding shooters!)...these people would not be interested in the epic, would not compete for the same jobs as current epic owners but they would give RED a MUCH wider base and in the long run make accessories and R&D for newer higher end brains a lot cheaper......

the main reason why i would like to see 5K 24fps int he scarlet is that the OLPF is really made for 5K....so anything cropped (4K, 3K, 2K) gets heavier filtration then 5K.....so for stills, 5K really is the best solution, not only because of the pixel count, but because 4K is (proportionally) much softer then 5K.....i guess a "scarlet olpf" could be a solution but i doubt that will happen....

of course the "easiest" solution is to get the epic....but for me that isn't really the case.....i would prefer a dragon (6K 24fps) scarlet to a 5K/100fps epic....of course we don't know what will happen with all that....and if RED keeps things the way they are, the dragon scarlet will do 6K at 12fps just to make sure some of those epic owners remain happy in their lonely towers....if RED comes out with a scarlet upgrade now, makes scarlet a 5K camera and makes the dragon scarlet a 6K camera, the entire line would still be a step up from the competition (working its way to 4K) and would give RED a great line up starting 2012....
5K scarlet 24fps
6K dragon scarlet 24fps
5K epic 100fps
6K dragon epic 120fps
i don't see why anyone would have a problem with that...the two in the middle could be pretty close in price but targeted toward different markets....

regardless....i don't see the need to argue about this....we won't know until we know....and what we know right now is that it isn't possible anyway....
i am waiting for a realistic scarlet dragon upgrade path....hopefully soon....
 
Scarlet does 10% of Epic's throughput (5K@12fps vs 5K@120fps) at 42% of Epic's cost. I'm sorry to say that it is not a good value.

20% of Epic's throughput (5K@24fps) at 42% of Epic's cost is far from an unreasonable desire.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
You knew your camera's limitations when you chose it, if your needs have changed, its time to change brains.
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You clearly don't understand me, I'm very stasified with my scarlet, I was extremly aware about its limitation and the business model. I'm not crying about 5K. As I said, if they give us 4,5K WS it will be a great gift (like something we did not expect or deserve).
 
RED always says that they don`t cripple their products on purpose for marketing reasons, and I really want to believe that, so if it was possible, to enable 4.5KWS on the Scarlet, it would be coherent with RED`s policy to do so. That said, if my math is correct, 4.5K WS is roughly the same number of pixels as 4K 1.9:1. So is it not mathematically possible for Scarlet to do that resolution and stay at the same frame rates? Nobody is asking for MORE resolution, we are just wondering if it`s not possible to TRADE vertical resolution for horizontal resolution. I think the real question is, why doensn`t Scarlet have the option for 2:1 and WS mode? At ANY resolution? I personaly would like that Scarlet would have a 4K WS or 2:1 mode, so I could save up on media sometimes. I really would like to know if there is reason at all, other them marketing, for Scarlet not have a 4.5K WS mode. I have never read no one from RED, explain anything about that, and I would be completely satisfied if they did, is just that they never did.
 
Rodrigo Prata said:
RED always says that they don`t cripple their products on purpose for marketing reasons, and I really want to believe that, so if it was possible, to enable 4.5KWS on the Scarlet, it would be coherent with RED`s policy to do so. That said, if my math is correct, 4.5K WS is roughly the same number of pixels as 4K 1.9:1. So is it not mathematically possible for Scarlet to do that resolution and stay at the same frame rates? Nobody is asking for MORE resolution, we are just wondering if it`s not possible to TRADE vertical resolution for horizontal resolution. I think the real question is, why doensn`t Scarlet have the option for 2:1 and WS mode? At ANY resolution? I personaly would like that Scarlet would have a 4K WS or 2:1 mode, so I could save up on media sometimes. I really would like to know if there is reason at all, other them marketing, for Scarlet not have a 4.5K WS mode. I have never read no one from RED, explain anything about that, and I would be completely satisfied if they did, is just that they never did.
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+1 !
 
My math doesnt add up.. at the webste: Red one: 4.5K 1-30 fps 12 bit raw $4K with accessories, Scarlet: 12 fps 4K with HDRX on, (how many fps without Hdrx?), and then: RedCode Raw, 4K 1-30 fps on scarlet??. If I discard the fact that Scarlet has a MX sensor, and is 16bit raw, is it 24-30fps without hdrx???, Im confused now.. Please humor me..
 
In the spirit of 4K ™

In the spirit of 4K ™

I believe that the amazing Red engineers will be able to figure out how to squeeze a bit more out of the Scarlet to shoot 5K 24 fps motion speed.
Maybe some advanced optimizations of firmware, maybe a couple of different #define statements :yesnod:

This would be smart as it would get the Scarlet closer to be able to shoot real 4K .
Out of the box Scarlets can not shoot 24 fps footage that holds real 4K resolution.

Some food for thought:
A 30" LCD monitor is 2560 x 1600 . It's real 2560. That's because it has 7680 pixel elements across. If I display a 2560 image with alternating columns of on and off pixels, I do see the pixel on/pixel off pattern razor sharp on the monitor.
Same thing with a digital projector. I can walk up to the screen and see the resolution clearly. On a DLP I can see every micro mirror doing it's job.
A 4K camera is different. It's more fuzzy in layman's terms.

5K gets us closer.
Red. Real 4K™ across the entire product line.
Sounds like a good idea?
 
Oh god I feel depressed reading all this. I'm sorry but most people are simply missing the whole point here. Guys for god sake, both Epic and Scarlet are made by the same company. Meaning, they will NEVER compete against each other. I believe the whole issue is based on Red's competitive & marketing strategy. Before anyone knew who Or what Red was, Red came out with the Red One proposal which took the whole industry by a storm. The key factors where; out of this world specs and features, carried by an affordable price tag. Years later, other companies started to wake up. I believe that Red care mostly about their customers, but at the same time are not afraid to take giant moves. So if in order for them to be even more competitive, and sell more cameras they taught it would be best to cut the price of Epic by half, that's what they have done. There will always be people who disagree, and are unhappy. Thats just the way it is. The great majority of people buy stuff based on price and features, built quality and then other things like, looks, customer support etc. If someone wants to invest in a camera, and has a budget to buy a Scarlet for instance, and invests that money elsewhere, than that qualifies as a problem. I'm not quite sure that the "everything changes" quote applies for their marketing strategy as well. Whatever Red decides to do regarding prices and features to any of their products is completely up to them. Im sure they know what to do. We have to wait and see.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
Because what you describe is an Epic not a Scarlet.
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Brandon,

I assume that your comment was referring to my original post, not pierre`s (please correct if I`m wrong here). Well, what I`ve described is certainly NOT an EPIC. What I have described is a camera that has the ability to record the exactly same amount of pixels, on the exactly same frame rate, with the exactly same compression and on the exactly same sensor as the Scarlet does. The ONLY diference would be the placement of the pixels it would read on the same given sensor. Since the Scarlet can do 5K 12FPS, one must assume that it can read any pixel it wants. So, it ultimately is the same camera, only it can record with a diferente aspect ratio.

Now, the EPIC is a much more powerful camera them the camera I have described is an EPIC. It Can do a 60% higher number of pixels at 5 times the same Fram Rate. It can also record 60% more pixels with a twice lower compression rate, wich ultimately leads to a better final image.

So, I must say that I really believe that you overstated when you said that the camera I described, but please don`t take my comment seriously.

The Epic at it`s current state, doesen`t have power management, can`t record lower frame rates them 1fps, can`t do long exposure times. And yet those are features that people keep asking for. Is greedy of them to ask for things that they believe is realistically possible for the camera to improve on? So, when RED announces that they will ad power management, lower frame rates, higher exposure times in future firmwares, that means that RED listens, so it actually means that they encourage people to ask for more features.

Again, I don`t think it is realistic to ask for Scarlet to do things that would require more hardware power them what it tops out today, that would mean to ask for a better camera. But to ask for a more flexible one, is not such a horrible thing, is it?
 
My thoughts on this matter had settled on the realization that Scarlet was being throttled to reinforce the distinction between Scarlet and Epic. And I figured it would remain that way so as not to piss of Epic owners.

But, now that we've seen RED make the bold move of slashing prices, despite it pissing off Epic owners, my hopes have been slightly rekindled. I would love to use more of my sensor, and I would much rather RED didn't have a sub-true4K camera in their line-up, the way things are going with the competition.
 
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