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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Made in the USA...

China subsidizes their solar energy industry at 20 times the rate that the US does. They are pulling the classic 19th century robber baron scheme of dumping goods on the US at below the cost of production to eliminate competition and dominate the market. Expect this to impact other US green tech companies too until we wake up and recognize that there is no such thing as "free" trade.

I'm hoping to be "efficient" enough within a couple of years to take my modest home off grid and use no fossil fuels or grid power. That would add about $4k to my annual household budget that is currently paying for energy. If I can include a plugin hybrid electric vehicle for local commuting that would also cut my transportation fuel costs by about 75%, another $3k per year in pocket. Alternate energy and efficiency can be a wonderful thing unless you work for big oil, big coal, big power.
 
David Battistella said:
This conversation is a political one and I think that is OK in the context of what is being reasonablly discussed.

It's really simple.

As consumers we have choices. If you think minor choices do not make a difference then look at how President Obama financed his campaign.

When you go to a dollar store, you are basically buying something that is the last step from the land fill. Also, you might be purchasing goods that are full of lead or other toxic metals.
Do you need a 10 cent ceramic cup that badly?

Do not fool yourself into thinking that buying third world goods from warehouse outlets means you are doing a good charitable deed. Most of the time you are supporting some form of slavery.
Low prices = Slavery in many cases

So choose. Look at labels. Decide whether you really need to consume. Try to buy stuff that supports your community. I'm not saying boycott, but just by being a conciencious consumer you can really change things.

Think of the price tag when looking at the price tag. How you personally move your money makes a difference.

Moving it toward RED is a way of supporting an idea Jim expressed in this thread, but open up that awareness and it can create massive change.

David
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Fully agree - we only have 12 coffee cups here because our loft-office never has more than 12 people in it at any given time. Why would we ever need more?

Same goes with furniture - why buy a mini-sofa for somewhere no one will ever sit? Why fill shelves with useless du-dads? I'd rather spend the money on lenses made in Japan, the U.S. and Germany. :-)
 
David Rasberry said:
China subsidizes their solar energy industry at 20 times the rate that the US does. They are pulling the classic 19th century robber baron scheme of dumping goods on the US at below the cost of production to eliminate competition and dominate the market. Expect this to impact other US green tech companies too until we wake up and recognize that there is no such thing as "free" trade.

I'm hoping to be "efficient" enough within a couple of years to take my modest home off grid and use no fossil fuels or grid power. That would add about $4k to my annual household budget that is currently paying for energy. If I can include a plugin hybrid electric vehicle for local commuting that would also cut my transportation fuel costs by about 75%, another $3k per year in pocket. Alternate energy and efficiency can be a wonderful thing unless you work for big oil, big coal, big power.
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Green Energy revolution is a MUST for humanity ,I prefer have solar panels and produce my electricity and charge my plugin hybrid so I will be independent(mostly) from major oil and utility companies even I will be able to sell my excessive electric to the city and make some extra money that's what I call a revolution ....Green America is good for Americans and good for the world....
 
OK... straying off point.

Jim
 
Global changes start in own consciousness. Not in an easy-way-out blabber.
And the rest is an avalanche.
 
David Battistella said:
So consumers are a just powerless flock who go for the lowest price no matter what?

Shit.

I was really starting to believe that people are genuinely good again.

Oh well. I will do my tiny little part and try to push the meaningless butterfly effect out through the universe.

David
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That's very funny.

I have to admit I’ve lost the plot. (I now see Jim's last post too)...

I did my PhD studies but didn’t do an MBA...

Various “metrics” being quoted in terms of ratio of revenue to number of employees don’t really take into account what it is that the business is intended to do?


If it keeps going, employs more than one person, has the ability to make more than $1 at the end of the year after (everyone has been paid) and everything has been taken into account. Then you are doing SOMETHING, rather than nothing? Coming from an R&D background (that’s pretty good), rather than having a cutting edge black hole that eats money by the bail and the light at the end of the tunnel is dim and sometimes flickers. Faith and risk go hand in hand. A bit like the linked S. Job’s speech, you can’t so easily join the dots into the future, but it’s easy to join the dots in hind sight.


Jim obviously should feel good about figuring out how this stuff NEEDS to be carried out on US soil. If you have personal responsibility for what happens and you have to carry the can then that’s what you do. For more complicated or less standard “instruments” (I won’t call them products), special care IS required, an intelligent and continuous dialog is needed. With a language barrier and 9000 miles distance etc. it becomes VERY hard to develop (intricate and imaginative) stuff remotely. For straight forward things, not a problem, BUT for anything that requires imaginative development and “up-stream” input this is super difficult. It’s a living “breathing” thing, not just a set of processes designed for manufacturing.



To me this distinguishes the difference between a beautiful instrument that is in constant improvement and therefore flux, versus a “dumb” widget. The Red cameras and systems are not dumb widgets, nor will they ever be and therefore will always require close contact between R&D and “production” in the US (we hope).


Made in the USA has a lot of connotations…hopefully over the next ten years or more that “brand USA” pushes the right button.
 
"Moving it (money)toward RED is a way of supporting an idea Jim expressed in this thread (made in America matters), but open up that awareness and it can create massive change."

I admit that I did stray into consumer choice, but I did bring it back to the idea that Buying RED products made mostly in the USA is a way of supporting well paid jobs in first world countries that do not engage slaves in the process of product making.

I know I took along way round to make a point but the idea is that producing products and paying people a fair wage, and paying a fair price for that product in the US or Canada or Italy or other G8 countries is important way to support healthy societies and social systems.



David
 
David Battistella said:
"... the idea is that producing products and paying people a fair wage, and paying a fair price for that product in the US or Canada or Italy or other G8 countries is important way to support healthy societies and social systems.
David
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All this is very true. And it is not surprising.

Germany is a high-cost manufacturer, yet they are the largest manufacturing exporting economy (in $) and are indisputably net winners of the global economy. Developing countries can't get enough of Germany's "machines-that-make-machines". Success is about where you position yourself.

Japan is another high-cost manufacturing center. Their broad economy is weak, but manufacturing is strong.

Demand is not determined simply by price (=cheap). Commodities might be, but not everything is a commodity. It is all about VALUE. Decision makers do not simply ask how cheap something is, but rather, what 's the value proposition.

Cameras are tools. There are different kinds of tools. There's a difference between a hammer and a packaged 5K imaging sensor, with a (nearly?) complete work flow. One is a commodity, one is something else. Buyers will pay a premium for real or perceived value. Hell, a segment of consumers will pay more simply because it does cost more.

The economy is dominated by an increasing divergence between the top of the market and bottom. The suppliers that inhabit the middle are being pulled apart.

China (everybody loves to beat up China), has succeeded at the bottom. However, they are are making enormous advances in going up-market (FoxConn!) Ironically, as China's economy grows, their cost advantages erode, as SKILLED LABOR becomes scarce. A partial answer to this is that China itself is now off-shoring production to Viet Nam, Cambodia, etc....its the same cycle of development that occurred when Japan became so successful and made Taiwan what it is...who made south east coastal China what it is....

And this begat global demand.

Growth can be disruptive, but it creates opportunity.

Red seems to be very successful at providing a compelling value proposition.

Plenty of buyers will pay a premium simply because of the products origin. English shoes, Italian cars, French Chamagne, American small aircraft (...well, not everyone, Jim), American guitars (who wants a Mexican Fender? I mean, really.) A premium product with compelling value an sustain higher input costs. They're $30K cameras. The added labor costs aren't going to deter buyers. Good on RED for seizing the initiative, and leveraging the intangible benefits of a domestic supply chain.
 
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I like the fact that Red is competing on quality. Having a lower price than Sony or Arri is icing on the cake.
 
Jannard said:
While 1.75 worker-hours per EPIC certainly doesn't represent the only labor associated with the program, we do pick up some additional savings by not having to place a team in a remote location, we save on shipping and duties... and we get incredibly important feedback from the manufacturing process that helps us design "smarter" for future products. Additionally, it is nice not to have to worry about keeping proprietary info, well... proprietary.

I think many companies just assume that everything can be made cheaper in Asia. There are many instances where that is true. The questions are "how much cheaper?" and "what else do you sacrifice in the process?"

I'd encourage other US companies to take a good look at manufacturing in the US. There is the small picture (corporate profits) as well as the big picture... the health of the nation.

Jim
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Thank you! I believe in the those words because of the evidence that supports it(RED). I only hope to contribute for our country first and then others as well, like what you have done. The biggest obstacle for us is the lack of Will and Imagination, people like you show us differently. Keep up the good fight and thank you again!
 
Jannard said:
Posts like this are dangerous. You make it sound like it is hopeless. If people believe this... then it is. Every single job matters. Every successful business matters no matter how big or small. It all adds up and will go in one direction or the other based on the attitude of the people. I choose to believe that it does matter and in a good way.

Jim
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Hear, hear.

Your attitude reflects a sensibility that not everyone comes to understand. But you are completely correct.

Many of the American people (and I am speaking as one) need to stop looking for fulfillment from external sources, and begin considering what can be done on an individual level to reinvigorate the economy. Jobs will not magically manifest no matter how sincere the intent of the orator, or the legislation put into effect to ostensibly support it. I found it humorous that although our society has become increasingly technology-centric, our commander in chief is lauding a modern day highway act to vitalize the American economy. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I kept seeing images of Rosy Riveter, or guys out working chain gang style constructing roads. Does that reality even exist anymore? That's a rhetorical question. While I agree that every little bit helps, I'm not sure how much this will jump-start the ailing economy. Most of the jobs once done by hand have all been mechanized.

In my mind, the majority of the economic stimulus will derive from people such as yourself. We need more innovation akin to what you are doing, Jim. But will it happen? Well, it starts with individuals like the souls that exist on this forum. Intelligent, and capable, people have to take responsibility and drive the economy, creating jobs for those that can't or won't. I attended a graduation ceremony recently, and have never witnessed a graduating class that contained more Ph.D.s than all the other classes combined. Traditionally, those are the people that are supposed be innovators, but I have the distinct feeling that many of those individuals are merely job-seekers. Educated derelicts.

All that written, I am trying to remain optimistic and will do everything to commit my small share to the revitalization effort we are facing. And I am extremely fortunate to have the assistance of the RED team supporting my efforts to do so. ;) Let's kick some fucking ass already.

E
 
Eryc Tramonn said:
Hear, hear.

Your attitude reflects a sensibility that not everyone comes to understand. But you are completely correct.

Many of the American people (and I am speaking as one) need to stop looking for fulfillment from external sources, and begin considering what can be done on an individual level to reinvigorate the economy. Jobs will not magically manifest no matter how sincere the intent of the orator, or the legislation put into effect to ostensibly support it. I found it humorous that although our society has become increasingly technology-centric, our commander in chief is lauding a modern day highway act to vitalize the American economy. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I kept seeing images of Rosy Riveter, or guys out working chain gang style constructing roads. Does that reality even exist anymore? That's a rhetorical question. While I agree that every little bit helps, I'm not sure how much this will jump-start the ailing economy. Most of the jobs once done by hand have all been mechanized.

In my mind, the majority of the economic stimulus will derive from people such as yourself. We need more innovation akin to what you are doing, Jim. But will it happen? Well, it starts with individuals like the souls that exist on this forum. Intelligent, and capable, people have to take responsibility and drive the economy, creating jobs for those that can't or won't. I attended a graduation ceremony recently, and have never witnessed a graduating class that contained more Ph.D.s than all the other classes combined. Traditionally, those are the people that are supposed be innovators, but I have the distinct feeling that many of those individuals are merely job-seekers. Educated derelicts.

All that written, I am trying to remain optimistic and will do everything to commit my small share to the revitalization effort we are facing. And I am extremely fortunate to have the assistance of the RED team supporting my efforts to do so. ;) Let's kick some fucking ass already.

E
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Did I mention I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore. Hahaha.

:)
 
I think it is great that Jim is building Red in America and creating jobs at a time when the country really needs to employ people and generate revenue. I think politics are best left to politicans too, and that we should all keep in mind that we now live and work in a World Economy. Protectionism is not good for anyone in your country or mine or elsewhere for that matter. It is proven to create job loss and inflate the cost of imported items severely. Somehow I suspect that the intent of the thread was not to spark debate over the choices people make when they shop or vote.
 
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