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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IBC - Dragon Epic and Scarlet Firmware V5.1.14 BETA

Thanks John. I am genuinely concerned about this. Its a bit mad really - I was so looking forward to the Dragon upgrade but now I have to be concerned about something as crazy as this? It is very frustrating as I had it all sorted out.
 
Seems to me that if I target 70 degrees, its a 10-11 minute warm up time for the sensor (on MX), but at that point the camera body is still cool to the touch for the most part. Another 10 mins at least is spent with the fan fluctuating as the camera body gets soaked through. I'd say that to be safe the camera needs to have run 30 mins from dead cold... but maybe far less from recent running.

If the far side of the SSD module is warm, I'd say thats the last straw in the camera soaking through, and by then the fan fluctuations stop.

I have previously done this (more out of blackshade fears actually) on my way to doccy style shoots by just burning a Redvolt right through in the sidehandle while doing other things (even while driving to location).

JBM
 
Thanks John. Your efforts and the time you take is really appreciated.

However, I really can't think that this is going to be a sensible solution - having to wait for such a lengthy period before you get a stable temperature and the fan stops making a fluctuating noise. I also remain concerned at running the camera for such long periods at such a ferocious temperature. I thought it was axiomatic that heat and electronics dont mix.

The case for reinstating manual control for me is even stronger.
 
I agree- the more I look at it, the better the argument for manual co-existing... just like the legacy gamma modes etc. still exist in RCX for specific purposes.
 
Just wondering. When in need of silence would it not be better to use ice sacks or such. Might sound primitive but the fans will always make noise, no really good way around it I think as long as you do not cool the camera in some other way. But I guess it would be difficult to ballance out to good temperature if the camera got an Ice sack strapped against the side SSD... but it for sure would not use the fan as much... So maybe we can not expect to have Red epic ice holder in the web shop any time soon :)
 
Ice sacks! Agggghh ... we are back in the early days of the Red One!

No need for that Bjorn. We don't need absolute silence at all. We just need the tried tested and workable solution that manual control over the fans gave us. 36 setting for record - 75 for standby. That was that. How complex can that be? With that combination I could do even the longest interviews and the sound was completely acceptable.
 
Yeah I have to raise my hand for manual mode being left in the firmware. If not only for the fact that more options is always better.
I have manually changed the fans for my audio recording many times adjusting depending on whats going on, and always getting good results. Not being in control of something that will make noise on set makes me nervous
 
Bjorn,

Might make the camera look 'less cool' than an ice bag -> But a sheet of PGS material could be use to touch the the hot points on the surface of the camera and wick heat away at a very high rate.

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/electronic-components/protection/pyrolytic-graphite-sheet.aspx
(The above lists the 17um stuff .. there is a 10um version now that is almost as amazing as pure diamond).

Here's an example of the 2011 version of the material: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAEhyY1_czM

And to put its ability in perspective. It can pull heat away from a point at 11 times the speed of an Aluminium heat sink.

AJ
 
TheBied said:
We'll be looking into further formats for Epic / Scarlet as we continue. 2:1 is currently only available in 5K.
Click to expand...
Great, do that :) I love the 2:1 format!!

TheBied said:
There are technical reasons for the 12 fps @ 5K formats that I can't go into here.
Click to expand...

Hehehe! I thought so, but still wanted to see if there's an easy explanation.

But thank you very much for answering anyway! Sorry for bringing it up again. :)
 
We've been watching all of the comments about the removal of manual fan mode in the beta.

'Adaptive' mode is meant to keep the sensor temperature as stable as possible for optimum image quality.

'Quiet Preview and Record' mode is designed to keep the camera in it's quietest possible state without any manual intervention.

Have there been any fan noise issues when running in quiet mode?
 
Rob Castiglione said:
Ice sacks! Agggghh ... we are back in the early days of the Red One!

No need for that Bjorn. We don't need absolute silence at all. We just need the tried tested and workable solution that manual control over the fans gave us. 36 setting for record - 75 for standby. That was that. How complex can that be? With that combination I could do even the longest interviews and the sound was completely acceptable.
Click to expand...



I Understand it's not the best solution. And as I do not do too much sound so I have not had any real issues with it, as it is I kind of always liked the sound of the fan and it's way of shifting trough different modes as that it lets me know Im in record mode, kind of similar to the sound of rolling film, I like to hear the data filling up... :)
 
Hi Mathew,

If I am in adaptive mode at say 60 degrees and then switch to quiet record mode how long can I record for before the temperature becomes unacceptable? Could I do a 20 minute take which would not be untypical in a doco situation?

My testing over several years showed that between 36 - 39 in manual mode was optimal for quietness and also for keeping the camera cool. However, this could vary according to the ambient temperature. The thing about manual control is that it enabled the operator to have control and to adapt to environmental conditions. It really was not that complex or confusing. People who found it confusing dont deserve to own an epic :)

I don't understand the logic of removing manual mode as the temperature creeps up anyway in quite record mode so arguments about keeping the sensor at a stable temperature only apply if you only going to record strictly in adaptive mode. The problem with recording in adaptive mode is that it will be too loud unless you are always at 70 degrees all the time ( which I am personally concerned about) and also you have to wait for the temperature to stabilise to avoid fan fluctuation noise.

Thanks for paying attention. I understand that Red is always trying to improve the camera. However, in this instance I would respectfully ask you to reconsider this decision. I just want to be able to shoot in the efficient way I have already worked out already over several years of shooting with the camera in all sorts of environments.
 
Jarred Land said:
yup.. its gone. its one of those manual things that too many people got confused over.
Click to expand...

I can't use this build because of this omission. It was very easy to set-up and a CONSTANT sound was very easy to remove in sound-post, an always varying sound is not easy at all. I set it to 80 standby and 36 record, and everyone was happy. Luckily, I don;t need any of the new features in this build.
 
TheBied said:
We've been watching all of the comments about the removal of manual fan mode in the beta.

'Adaptive' mode is meant to keep the sensor temperature as stable as possible for optimum image quality.

'Quiet Preview and Record' mode is designed to keep the camera in it's quietest possible state without any manual intervention.

Have there been any fan noise issues when running in quiet mode?
Click to expand...

Yes there have - camera get way too hot in quiet mode on long interviews and changes sound as it "adapts" in Adaptive mode. Totally unusable. In docos, people do 30 minute interviews, routinely. Adapative mode is great for music video or anything that has no sound being recorded.

Waiting 30-40 minutes for fluctuations to stop (In Canada, the truck might be very cold, might take longer) is not always practical nor even possible after camera is turned on. Again, have you Red guys ever worked on a documentary....

Also, now ACs on rental gigs will have one more thing to complain about - as they all knew how to use manual and not stress.
 
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Robert Ruffo New said:
Yes there have - camera get way too hot in quiet mode on long interviews and changes sound as it "adapts" in Adaptive mode. Totally unusable. In docos, people do 30 minute interviews, routinely. Adapative mode is great for music video or anything that has no sound being recorded.

Waiting 30-40 minutes for fluctuations to stop (In Canada, the truck might be very cold, might take longer) is not always practical nor even possible after camera is turned on. Again, have you Red guys ever worked on a documentary....

Also, now ACs on rental gigs will have one more thing to complain about - as they all knew how to use manual and not stress.
Click to expand...

Completely agree that adaptive will modulate the fan speeds as it's intended use is tight control over the sensor temperature.

Quiet mode is designed to run the camera hot, but at minimum fan speed. This includes extended recording cycles. Assuming the camera is calibrated in this mode it should give you the best image quality and sound performance. There is really no need to switch between the two modes during operation to cool the camera between takes.
 
Another +1 for keeping manual fan control - even if it's not the default, it's great to have that manual control when consistent audio frequency is required for noise removal :)

Adaptive mode is a great addition however - will definitely be using that on shoots where audio doesn't factor in.
 
So far I like quiet mode. Used manual mode exclusively, tried adaptive and it really didn't suit my needs as it "adapted" all the time and thus made different levels of noises. Bring back manual fan, the more options the better, but so far QUIET mode is good so far.

TheBied said:
Completely agree that adaptive will modulate the fan speeds as it's intended use is tight control over the sensor temperature.

Quiet mode is designed to run the camera hot, but at minimum fan speed. This includes extended recording cycles. Assuming the camera is calibrated in this mode it should give you the best image quality and sound performance. There is really no need to switch between the two modes during operation to cool the camera between takes.
Click to expand...
 
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