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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FEB Update / IPP2 Preview 2

Do you think we se this out in nab times? Or you cant tell?
 
Lut during playback

Lut during playback

Graeme Nattress said:
Full IPP2 is more than just cube LUTs and gives you a great degree of flexibility while keeping the workflow simple. The new preview cubes (and in-camera) give a taste of that flexibility.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Hey Graeme,

If this IPP2 workflow is going to keep things simple then were going to need to play back footage in camera with the lut applied to view it correctly. Will this be addressed in future firmware so that we can playback with IPP2 or any other lut? Director's/clients are going to expect this on fast moving set environments and any other work around would really complicate things.

A direct response on if this will be released would be very helpful! Thanks!
 
Austin Ahlborg said:
Hey Graeme,

If this IPP2 workflow is going to keep things simple then were going to need to play back footage in camera with the lut applied to view it correctly. Will this be addressed in future firmware so that we can playback with IPP2 or any other lut? Director's/clients are going to expect this on fast moving set environments and any other work around would really complicate things.

A direct response on if this will be released would be very helpful! Thanks!
Click to expand...


Hey Austin, I believe it was in this post (or possibly another part of the forum) where Graeme had mentioned that the final iteration of IPP2 will be viewable in-camera for some cameras and that the LUTs are only for testing - as a new menu system will debut in camera to change the settings of the R3D in the same looks the LUTs currently transform.
 
When loading IPP2 luts onto SW I can do a max 17x17x17 but the low/med/high contrast IPP2 versions are 33x33x33. Is there a 17x17x17 IPP2 bundle?

On another note I can add all the new IPP2 luts onto a smallHD 702 and view IPP2 colors on record and playback. Is a good work around for some people wanting IPP2 for in camera playback.
 
My apologies if this is covered already, but does that summer Scarlet-W estimate apply to the monochrome as well?
 
Full IPP2 is not limited to any particular colour space or linearity for the output, so does include REDLogFilm output too. I've put that in for backwards compatibility, but I'm interested to know how you'd use it.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Full IPP2 is not limited to any particular colour space or linearity for the output, so does include REDLogFilm output too. I've put that in for backwards compatibility, but I'm interested to know how you'd use it.

Graeme
Click to expand...

I guess Michael has luts built for red log film so he wants a WGRGB2RLF lut and from there go same route as he has been doing pre IPP2. As there is quite a few 3rd party stuff based on RLF I guess such lut could come handy.

Or a simple rec7092RLF would also be good to have.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I guess Michael has luts built for red log film so he wants a WGRGB2RLF lut and from there go same route as he has been doing pre IPP2. As there is quite a few 3rd party stuff based on RLF I guess such lut could come handy.

Or a simple rec7092RLF would also be good to have.
Click to expand...

That's why I'm asking! Thing is, such LUTs would be based around old Red colour spaces, so wouldn't look "right" anyway, and you can still access them via the SDK / REDCine-X.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
That's why I'm asking! Thing is, such LUTs would be based around old Red colour spaces, so wouldn't look "right" anyway, and you can still access them via the SDK / REDCine-X.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Understood. But I guess a rwg2rlf could be more accurate than going rwg2rec709 and then rec7092rlg also if one wanted to get there it would be nice to be able to do so using only one lut in rcxp. Even if it was not 100% mathimatically correct i guess rwgrgb2rlf for helium could ve made more accurate than just choosing rlf as you could then create the lut so there is less clamping, no?
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Is it likely Red will realease IPP2 Luts that take us to REDlog Film (Cineon tonal mapping) rather than rec709?
Click to expand...

Hey Michael, you can generate one using LUTcalc online, it's quite easy and straightforward. ;)

You can also choose the size (precision) of it too! IE monitoring or grading usage...

I don't know how accurate can be tho since I don't know if Ben (its creator) has definitive specs of IPP2...
 
Question, are there negative ipp2 luts so we can go: rwgrgb2rec709 and then composite and then rec7092rwgrgb and then grade composite shots together with raw source?
 
For inverse operations, use the math in the white paper which describe the colour space and log curve. That will allow you to bring CGI or whatever into the same space as the Red material.

Graeme
 
Hi Graeme

Thank you for the answer and sorry to ask a question and then be slow responding to the followup from you..

I was also slow to answer as I , depite always being keen to get your opionions, wanting to avoid the predicatable posts from the LUT police.. (they know who they are;-)

Basically Björn is 100% right I have some LUTs that work from RLF to 709. They are basically different contrast 709 transforms that kick out a bit in the shadows (less linear across the colour channels and also desaturate a tiny bit faster in the highlights) I have 3 strenghts of basically the same thing..

Now I accept that since they are a bit frankenstein in origin they may do particularlry odd things applied to some material. I have checked them out on lots of my material and have also visualised them in Lattice and they are not partically radical and do seem to behave themselves.

NOW I know that I may be able to use the maths you published to change or reubuild the LUTs but I was looking for a quicker fix until I get around to looking at this in more detail.

I also realsie the traditional purpose of a LUT is not what I am doing... Now I think I could change my LUTs in Lattice (or similiar) to start from 709 BUT I don't want to concertine LUTs especially one that is essentially an attractive monster ;-)

I am buidling a folder of different material that I wll soon, when the dust settles, create a new set of Luts for the same pupose and it would be lovely to do things a bit more thouroughly this time ... but I would always rather have the right image over the correct process so I may fail.

Thanks again

Michael

PS what is very interesting about looking at LUTs visualised is how clearly 33 pionts is the bare min for something as dramatic as the new Red tonal mapping (Log3G10) to 709.
 
Tommaso Alvisi said:
Hey Michael, you can generate one using LUTcalc online, it's quite easy and straightforward. ;)

You can also choose the size (precision) of it too! IE monitoring or grading usage...

I don't know how accurate can be tho since I don't know if Ben (its creator) has definitive specs of IPP2...
Click to expand...

thank you for the suggestion..

I will look at this later... does it offer more than Lattice in terms of translating LUTS?
 
Any source image is going to have a colour space and a linearity. Any LUT is going to be designed to work with a particular colour space and linearity. If a LUT just alters linearity, it should work with any colour space. If a LUT is doing colour space conversion, it's going to want a particular input colour space or the end result is going to look a bit funky.

"LUTs that work from RLF to 709" - so the key question there is are the 1D LUTS that alter only linearity, or do they do colour space conversions too? If they're just doing linearity, you could do RWG/Log3G10 -> REC709/RLF -> then apply your custom LUTs. That would no doubt look "better" than going DragonColor2/RLF -> apply your custom LUTs, as the new IPP2 would handle a better conversion of the colour space and avoid clipping out of gamut colours.

If the LUTs expect a particular colour space and do colour space conversion, then we'd have to discuss more offline on what can be done to help. Meanwhile... check your messages.

Graeme
 
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