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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

  • Total voters
    486
Jason Ramsey said:
I think there is a potentially larger demographic of people who *will* go for it if it has HDR, where they might not currently consider it strongly enough against a similarly priced larger sensor video cam.
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I agree for the higher end Scarlets, but not for the fixed. If you are talking about the AF100 at $6k, people will prefer greater color space and RAW and cheaper package (fixed has lens built in and AF100 does not).
 
One option I suggested (in the wrong thread) would be an MX type upgrade. They go ahead and release Scarlet as planned and then offer a return to base upgrade where you send your camera back and they retrofit the more powerful board(s). Might cost a bit more than $1,000 but it would not need to hold up development and initial release of Scarlet. Let's get them on the streets as soon as possible and then the greedy amongst us can go back for second helpings in our own time and on our own dime.
 
I think that more boards for Scarlet would mean a real time-consuming re-design. They said that the body is quite packed with the fixed lens and that to figure out how all that would fit and work (heat management, airflow and all that) took quite some time. So, just as an upgrade would not work, I'd say. Would be like rehousing the whole camera.
 
I don't think it should be HDR scarlets or nothing, but lets say it is if you can't scrape the extra 1k'ish together then maybe you should consider weather this level of camera is really for you.

I would imagine if red had said, scarlet now had HDR and costs 1k'ish more (and little to no time delay) everyone who was really going to get a scarlet would still find a way.

I can make the extra 1k'ish easy for the upgrade, what I can't do is make up the $23,250 extra to get a epic with HDR. Now you may say this feature is out of my level, but if it can be made for just 1k'ish more it is.

I feel there is a certain demographic of people who stretched to afford their epic and now are regretting it if scarlet gets HDR or are worried about rental costs or loosing jobs (though I'm most likely wrong... just a feeling), then once again I wonder if epic was for you as if I had the money (and I literally mean if I only had 30k to my name I would buy one....not smart I know but that's me... plus be a while before it would be fully kitted out..) I would buy one in a second, frame rates, data rates, sensor size, higher HDR rates, and the best processing power of the lineup (I assume) as well as other features we have yet to hear of.

Epic will be the workhorse with no compromises (except sensor size if you see it that way either too big or too small) scarlet 2/3" will have sensor size compromises less frame rate and data rate options, scarlet S35 has the sensor size but not the frame rates and perhaps data rates? (not sure on data rates). this all seems fine to me if they released all with HDR with limited data and frame rates, or make other models that are specially ordered and cost even more then Jim's estimated $1000'ish price increase.

though Jason has covered it best I truly believe that the 2/3" scarlet needs HDR weather it is a second model, a module, an upgrade, or even the only scarlet 2/3" model at all.

What about the possibility of making the fixed 2/3" non HDR, and making the scarlet 2/3" interchangeable into a HDR model?
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Guys,

...Jim GUESSED $1,000.00... Be assured, there will be more to this as they move it along.

Am I in favor of Scarlet having HDR? Nope.. Too far along. The damn camera is only $4,750.00... Put it in another version later on. But let's get this one out.

My take

Jay
Click to expand...

+1 as long as it has DR comparable to the the AF100, or better - 10.5 stops.
 
I dont understand this argument, the HDRx™™™ upgrade/module should not affect the Scarlet release date one bit.

The Scarlet Fixed is almost complete, bar some testing it's close to being released. We've already seen some footage.

Any HDRx™™™™™™™™™ update should (in theory) be a choice Red will offer those willing to pay the 1,000 or so price tag whether this is in the form of a module or a new board (I for one hope it won't be an extra module, there are enough Red modules already and more planned, keep it simple)
The real question for me is will Red couple HDRx™™™™™™™™™ with a SSDrive + Module and 1.8" Reader for Scarlet and offer it at a competitive price, as it looks like HDRx™™™™™™™™™ will need a SSD to be really effective.

Finally as Jeff Kilgroe said earlier a Fixed scarlet with HDRx™™™™™™™™™ would be an amazing camera with 18 stops of DR it is bound to be the first choice for most Eng, Documentary, Run and gun and Reality based content
(give me one Light Panel and away I go )
Remove the card reader and offer this combined HDRx™™™™™™™™™ SSD + Module and 1.8" Reader for 2500-3000 and you are on to a winner.

My 2 Cents
 
To be honest, instead of HDR I wished RED would just come out and give us a release date.

"Guys, we're shooting for March 2001 as best as we can. We might miss it by a month or two, but this is our goal."

That would help so much.
 
I haven't read all the previous comments on this post but I think there needs to be some kind of serious difference between the Scarlet and the Epic. There needs to be something to justify the price tag of the Epic and I see HDR as one of those things. (The price tag is still awesome though, even without HDR).

It should be noted that I am ready to purchase a Scarlet the second it becomes available so I am not trying to be some 'epic snob' by saying it should be feature limited.

Perhaps it could be implemented in the Scarlet S35/FF brains but certainly not in the 2/3 version. Bear in mind too, that Jim has said Scarlet will need tweaking to accommodate HDR, so that will obviously affect delivery times.

But overall, Epic should be just that... Epic... with all features. Scarlet's features should reflect it's price point... which I think would be a fair position for RED to take.
 
tillHavis said:
I dont understand this argument, the HDRx™™™™™™™ upgrade/module should not affect the Scarlet release date one bit.
...
Click to expand...

I'd love for this to be true but I have a hard time believing it could be. Sounds like Jim is suggesting it is more than a firmware upgrade; it would take additional hardware for a Scarlet to be able to process these files. Maybe that stuff could be added easily and not change anything in Scarlet's schedule but I am a bit skeptical about that. There at least one shooting prototype of Scarlet Fixed. Seems to me that to go back and add hardware into that and re-test will take more time.

I hope I am wrong and we get it all - HDRx and a release date that comes very soon!
 
Keep in mind, Mark from Offhollywood said that Epic still had a lot of functions not announced. What makes Epic truly "Epic" will be a combination of all these feature sets, for all we know, the stuff announced for Scarlet compared to Epic may only be 1/3 of the feature sets Epic truly has. HDR might just be the icing on the cake, that can be shared all around...
 
I vote no.

Epic - Pro
Scarlet - Accessible

Every grand added reduces accessibility.
Wait a couple o years and the Scarlet prices will probably stay the same, but features will trickle down from the Epic.
 
1st post

1st post

This is my first ever post here but I've been lurking for some time, ha! :P

I've always loved Red for their no comprimise ethos. I feel that if Scarlets were released without any option of HDRx™™ then it would be shame. $1k is easily worth having HDRx™™ mode and I personally think it would be very much like 'some other companies' if it was excluded for reasons of seperating Epics from Scarlets.

IMO, if HDRx™™ can be implemented with a module then that's the obvious choice.

However, I think that there is some information that could sway a lot of the votes.

From what I can see, lots of people are waiting to hear how much a Scarlet package will cost. If say, there's a significant saving on buying a Scarlet with all the necessary accessories (not saying I'm expecting anything here just pointing it out) I think a lot of people would suddenly want the HDRx™™ included as well.

Just a suggestion... alright basically a hint to Red. But something I thought was worth bringing up. Any thoughts?

Chris Park-Kennaby (If anyone from Red sees this please change my username to my real name, cheers)
 
Epic will be epic regardless of whether or not Scarlet 2/3" has HDR. Crippling Scarlet 2/3 won't make Epic better.

Consider instead that Red could have the undisputed champ in the 35 format and the 16 format, two already highly differentiated, established segments. It's 5k and you're future proofed and have amazing to-be-revealed pro features versus 3k and live for the moment.

And if any Scarlet should be denied HDR, as if it were our duty to ensure differentiation among brands, it would be the s35/FF. Those are the ones that would eat into Epic sales, not the 2/3" / 16mm.

Another brand name is needed to separate the 2/3 format from the s35&FF Scarlets. And then we could have the Scarlet 16s, the lessers (non-HDR) and SCARLET M-F 16s, Hammer of the Gods Editions.

Valhalla, I am coming!

HDR for we, the filthy, unwashed masses!
 
Would I pay the extra $1000 for HDR in Scarlet? Yes. If increasing the processing power and changing all the boards also increasing the frame rates possible... HELL YES!!!!!! At the same time though I just want the camera now... so if adding this is going to take longer, I might vote no.
 
Danny Lingan said:
Crippling Scarlet 2/3 won't make Epic better.
Click to expand...
I hardly think Scarlet will be crippled by not including HDR. Or that RED wouldn't have the undisputed 16 mm digital camera... nothing else is even close to Scarlet as it is.

The key here is release date. Of course I'd love to pay an extra $1,000 for HDR on Scarlet... but if it requires a complete redesign (which it sure seems like it will) that will dramatically impact the release date, then, heck no, I don't want it even though it'd be awesome and I'd pay for it.

I want my RED, and I can't afford a RED ONE or an EPIC, so just please give me a Scarlet Fixed, as soon as practically possible.
 
DaveT said:
Wait a couple o years and the Scarlet prices will probably stay the same, but features will trickle down from the Epic.
Click to expand...

Well, that's not entirely true. The whole point in bringing this up is that they'd have to add some new boards to Scarlet's brain to make it able to do this HDR stuff. This isn't as easy as a firmware upgrade.
 
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