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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

One fear...

One answer here, of course, to just buy the $7000 camera (or the $10,000 one -- seems silly not to spend a bit more for the FF35 Scarlet) and rent the $43,000 one for the occasional job that requires it. As an owner/operator or small shop, your goal should be to own the stuff that you know you'll use on every single shoot, but not to try to own everything you'd ever need for every possible shoot. Small shops have treated high-priced accessories like this forever. Red's modular system just brings the same flexibility to the camera "brain".
 
I feel Brook's fear as my own.
I dont see the big difference in specs between the brains (including the R1 upgraded body) but I do see the price range vary a lot.
Jim has stated that the difference in capabilities of each brain will give each one its own niche. But from what I have seen I dont understand why would you get a EPIC FF35 when the R1 can get the job done right in most scenarios. (Please dont remind me the slow mo feature I know we have but rarely use)...
Also, I have seen editors, post houses, fx guys, whine all the time about the complications involved in working in 4K, I cant imagine what they would say when you show up with 10 hard drives saying: here is my 30 seconds spot ready for editing composing and fx-ing. So would it be wise just right now to buy a 6K system? Will that be read too on my mac laptop? I am pretty sure sometime soon computers will speed up, but I see the cams moving faster than the computers. So in terms of the business, is that worth it or not? The treat for us R1 owners is a present from Jim with the accesories on the Epic X. BUT, what are those amazing specs that we are missing in order to make up our minds!!!
 
On the other hand.. there is something I dont understand maybe its a good thread to post: Are the film lenses capable of producing the FF35 image required for the Monstro sensor? Because as far as I knew the biggest image the lenses can produce is up to S35. FF35 is for still lenses, not motion picture. But I could be wrong.. Hopefully am wrong..
 
just to get an idea...

lets say brook is right and an average epic goes out for 1500-2000 usd...
ok you get 350 fps @ 2k for that.

I never used a phantom hd.
how much does renting cost and what are the exact specifications?
 
estebanred said:
On the other hand.. there is something I dont understand maybe its a good thread to post: Are the film lenses capable of producing the FF35 image required for the Monstro sensor? Because as far as I knew the biggest image the lenses can produce is up to S35. FF35 is for still lenses, not motion picture. But I could be wrong.. Hopefully am wrong..
Click to expand...

i guess you would add a pl mount to the ff35 and just use a smaller fraction of the 6k sensor and still get the DR.
 
Brook Willard said:
No, because most people who own a FF35 will be using PL-mount glass on it in a windowed super 35mm mode.

FF optics for motion will be more of a specialty item.
Click to expand...

Yes... and...
If RED has one of their master-plans for FF optics, it could kinda explain the lack of an S35/Monstro combo.

Let's say that their primes cover FF and they are priced as they are and could be compared to Cooke S4s...

AND then comes the anamorphics.

More people would have an affordable way to use the FF AND arri/zess (or any other optics maker) would be up to a challenge.

Just thinkin' out loud here...
 
Brook Willard said:
As it stands, there is the RED ONE. At $18,000 for a camera body, a good body package will run about $50,000-60,000 [not including follow focus, mattebox, lenses or support... but including media and batteries].
Click to expand...
I see these kinds of posts from time to time and they just sorta baffle me. Unless you're throwing in a couple of Master Primes in your kit, I'm not sure how the figures grow so high.

When I got my RED ONE package, I bought a brand new O'Connor head and sticks, a wireless follow focus, new 19mm mattebox to replace the old one I had, and just about every accessory RED supplied under the sun (sans the EVF) and I didn't spend over $40,000. In fact, it was well short of that. So I think that number is a bit inflated... I think $20,000 above and beyond the price of the camera should be plenty if lenses are not a part of the equation. And while that may seem like splitting hairs to some, $10,000 is a lot of change in today's economy - or from another perspective, the difference between getting that FF35 or the 645. Just my two cents.
 
I don't understand why this is a fear. I mean yes there will be a glut of people owning Scarlets and jocking for a piece of Red pie, but the professionals and good shooters will stand out among the amateurs. We've seen it with the recent advances in DV/HDV/P2. I think the only time it will bite you in the ass is if a company is looking at two people for a job, one with an Red/Epic package and the other with a Scarlet. And if both people have really good work it will probably come down to cost.
 
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  • #98
Häakon said:
I see these kinds of posts from time to time and they just sorta baffle me. Unless you're throwing in a couple of Master Primes in your kit, I'm not sure how the figures grow so high.
Click to expand...

RED ONE $18,000
7" LCD $2,500
EVF $2,950
RED DRIVE x3 $2,700
RED RAM x2 $9,000
16GB CFs x8 $4,400
Quick Plate $500
Battery Plate $175
Extra EVF/LCD Cables x2 $360
DRIVE/RAM cables x4 $800
Top Handle w/extension $325
Arri 15mm base $600
Noga Arm $150
Anton Bauer VCLX Block w/chargers x3 $6,500
Varizoom 190wh batts w/charger $3,220
AJA Downconverter $1,500
VF start/stop button $150

ET Top Combo, EVF mount, extension, v-dock system, breakout box, handle riser... their site is broken, so I'll say $4,000


Total: $57,830

This doesn't include cases, smaller AKS items, many cables, rods or any kind of support, matte boxes, follow focus or lenses. There are lots of little things that one would need to buy to piece this kit together that would hit the magic $60,000 figure.

But that's where I get the number from.

Not everybody would make the same decisions. Lots would go with less media, different batteries, no backups etc. That's cool. At most, those parts would save you $10,000.
 
Brook Willard said:
Lots would go with less media, different batteries, no backups etc. That's cool. At most, those parts would save you $10,000.
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You're right... and that's the $10,000 I was talking about. :-) To each their own; I was just pointing out that the $10,000 difference due to splurging on accessories could well be someone's difference between getting the FF35 or the 645, for example.
 
Häakon said:
You're right... and that's the $10,000 I was talking about. :-) To each their own; I was just pointing out that the $10,000 difference due to splurging on accessories could well be someone's difference between getting the FF35 or the 645, for example.
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No, I see your point. That's why I mentioned it in my original post. :)

Brook Willard said:
...a good body package will run about $50,000-60,000...

...a good body package you'll want to take out on any job will be another $20-35,000 [over the cost of the body]
Click to expand...

So while I obviously specced out an all-the-trimmings package, there are many ways to make it less expensive. The person who's struggling to afford the camera wouldn't and shouldn't spend $10,000 on batteries.

I can tell you that when I get a 645... it's sure not going to be that awesome. :) That's more of a package I'd take out of Keslow on a job.
 
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