Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Desired Changes with Scarlet..

Tom said:
having a fixed lens and less-than-35mm-sized sensor means the camera is not very different from other prosumer cameras like the ex1. sure the sensor is a little bigger, and it's a little cheaper, but that is not a "game changing" difference. what would make scarlet special, IMHO, is being the ONLY prosumer camera with a full cine-sized sensor.

that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Fixed lens is a little bit of a let down for me, but hopefully Red will come with the goods when it comes to the lens. As for the sensor, the 35mm sensor is in the Red One. We knew for a long time that this camera will not compete with Red One, which means its different in two places, sensor and lenses. This camera is VERY DIFFERENT from todays Prosumer equiment:
1. 2/3" 3K Sensor - Name a prosumer camera with that.
2. 2/3" 3K Sensor in a tiny modular hand held body - Name a prosumer camera with that.
3. RAW Recording under $10K - Name a prosumer camera with that.

The day I can say "I'd rather have that Sony/Panny/JVC camera than Scarlet" is the day it'll be like any other prosumer camera. I don't mean to be a Red Fan Freak, but what they are offering is great, especially if it's starting price is $3000 (which I still can't believe till Jennard publicly says so).
 
All you folks on here wanting interchangeable lenses, that's fine. But you'll need suitable lenses to go with it. You won't be able to use your Nikon lens etc. unless all you want are a bunch of telephoto lenses. Even your widest lens will be little better than a standard lens when applied to the 2/3" sensor. The only way you can have 35mm-like depth of field is with a 35mm sensor. If that wasn't so, you wouldn't ever need those lens adapters everyone is trying to avoid.

Having said that, 2/3'' will give a decent DOF - as good as an F23 and better than most anything else outside of the 35mm sensor cameras such as Red One.
 
I'm very happy with the 2/3" sensor..... bigger would be nicer, but for this camera I think it's the compromise to live with. 3K! dS16!! :-)

RedRaw.... well it had to be, didn't it :-)

I'm amazed at 120 and 180 fps options.... I did not expect more than 60.

I'm happy enough with the little Red zoom as an option, but have some worries about it getting wide enough for landscapes.

Hey, this is Red-land...... we accept the amazing and move straight onto how it could suit us better ;-)
 
VMax said:
With all due respect Tom, it couldn't be pocket sized with a 35mm sensor. And it would need a 35mm sized lens to go with it making it even more bulky. You'd be talking close to the scale of Red One. I am amazed that Red got a 2/3" sensor in that little package.
Click to expand...

scarletat7.jpg


Yeah, but I mean I would hardly call this thing "pocket sized"!

rocko, you make some good points. scarlet IS amazing. But I think we learned last time around with Red One that it doesn't hurt to toss in your 2 cents with suggestions for improvements. that's what's so great about jim and red. they actually listen.
 
Tom said:
scarletat7.jpg


Yeah, but I mean I would hardly call this thing "pocket sized"!

rocko, you make some good points. scarlet IS amazing. But I think we learned last time around with Red One that it doesn't hurt to toss in your 2 cents with suggestions for improvements. that's what's so great about jim and red. they actually listen.
Click to expand...
Ha Ha! Right! So imagine if it had a 35mm sensor...

But you're also right about Jim and Red listening to us. That's the magic here.
 
VMax said:
The only way you can have 35mm-like depth of field is with a 35mm sensor.
Click to expand...

Yeah because my Nikon (dx format) has crappy DOF :umm:

Remember... the Red One's sensor isn't 36 x 24mm. It's 24.4 x 13.7
 
oldphart said:
Zoom lenses are for situations where convenience is more important than quality.
Click to expand...

Uh, I believe you could say the same thing about the very concept of a pocket camera! It's all about miniaturization, convenience, and price. If quality is your only concern, get the Epic.
 
Tom said:
having a fixed lens and less-than-35mm-sized sensor means the camera is not very different from other prosumer cameras like the ex1. sure the sensor is a little bigger, and it's a little cheaper, but that is not a "game changing" difference.
Click to expand...

I don't really keep up with all of the latest models so I'm curious: where's the prosumer camera with full manual control that records a clean 1080p RAW image to solid state media for around $3k? That's all I really want. The 3k, the metal body, and high frame rates are all just icing on the cake. What's the closest competitor? The Sony XDCAM EX is what, $6.5k? The HVX doesn't even do full 1080p and it's $5k and records to expensive proprietary media. And both of those are way bigger than the proposed Scarlet design. Take one of those cameras to a public location and it's pretty obvious that you're not just a tourist.
 
Gene Crucean said:
Yeah because my Nikon (dx format) has crappy DOF :umm:

Remember... the Red One's sensor isn't 36 x 24mm. It's 24.4 x 13.7
Click to expand...
Gene,

I'm not sure what you're saying here. But to clarify my point, when I say 35mm sensor, I'm referring to the size of a 35mm movie camera film frame.
 
VMax said:
Gene,

I'm not sure what you're saying here. But to clarify my point, when I say 35mm sensor, I'm referring to the size of a 35mm movie camera film frame.
Click to expand...

But you referred to 35mm adapters. Most of which use a 36x24mm ground glass.
 
Gene Crucean said:
But you referred to 35mm adapters. Most of which use a 36x24mm ground glass.
Click to expand...
Actually, I wasn't aware of that. But it does make sense since a lot of folks use 35mm film still camera lenses on these adapters.

My point was that you cannot expect as shallow a DOF as a 35mm movie camera (or Red One) with a 2/3" sensor. A lot of folks in this thread were talking about wanting to use their 35mm lenses directly on Scarlet and I was pointing out that that wouldn't work unless they didn't mind all their lenses being effectively telephoto or at best around standard (50mm equivalent on a stills camera) if using a wide angle lens.
 
VMax said:
Actually, I wasn't aware of that. But it does make sense since a lot of folks use 35mm film still camera lenses on these adapters.

My point was that you cannot expect as shallow a DOF as a 35mm movie camera (or Red One) with a 2/3" sensor. A lot of folks in this thread were talking about wanting to use their 35mm lenses directly on Scarlet and I was pointing out that that wouldn't work unless they didn't mind all their lenses being effectively telephoto or at best around standard (50mm equivalent on a stills camera) if using a wide angle lens.
Click to expand...

Yeah I gotcha.

My point (about my nikon) was that a full frame 35mm lens still produces beautiful dof and lens characteristics even with a DX sized sensor.
 
Well it would be easier to talk about what to keep. 120fps, 3k, Redcode Raw, Record to CF.

2/3" is just not going to cut it for me. That is something like 8.5mm wide, substantially less than even S16. The 2.8 aperture on the lens is totally inadequate. To have the same DoF as S35 with the same angle of view of a 35mm lens the aperture would have to be a whopping f.34!

I just don't see what you can do with Scarlet that you can't with the existing Japanese stuff. Yeah Scarlet is a little better, but it is still in that league and so your footage will be.

Red has "Digital Cinema" written on their own logo. In my book 2/3" fixed 2.8 does not qualify!
 
kmikami said:
I don't really keep up with all of the latest models so I'm curious: where's the prosumer camera with full manual control that records a clean 1080p RAW image to solid state media for around $3k? That's all I really want. The 3k, the metal body, and high frame rates are all just icing on the cake. What's the closest competitor? The Sony XDCAM EX is what, $6.5k? The HVX doesn't even do full 1080p and it's $5k and records to expensive proprietary media. And both of those are way bigger than the proposed Scarlet design. Take one of those cameras to a public location and it's pretty obvious that you're not just a tourist.
Click to expand...

My main point is that putting a fixed lens in the scarlet keeps it in the same ballpark as other prosumer cameras, like Sony's EX1. Yes, it will be cheaper than $6K (EX1 might drop in price by the time Scarlet debuts), but by the time you get the LCD and all the accessories, probably not THAT much cheaper. Okay, Scarlet shoots 3K, but 3K is not a format, so your projects will finish at 1080p or 2K. So the resolutions are similar to the EX1 or EX3. So then the question becomes, how does Scarlet's dynamic range stack up against Sony's EX1 or EX3? That very much remains to be seen.

The only real benefit you are left with is RAW processing and higher framerates. On the downside, the EX3 will have interchangeable lenses.

In my humble opinion, the ONE real way Scarlet to could stand out from the crowd would be the ability to use existing 35mm cine glass, or at least interchangeable lenses. Hell, Sony's EX3 will have interchangeable lenses. And frankly, if I had to choose between interchangeable lenses or RAW, I'd choose the lenses. Everybody and their brother is slapping these lame 35mm adapters on every prosumer camera out there, so what would be "epic" is a camera that is 35mm from the start. Making the sensor a little bigger is not expensive, as far as I know. Isn't the opposite true?

The one huge glaring hole in the prosumer camera market is the missing 35mm-size sensor or an ability to use cine glass. In fact, the hole is so wide you could drive a truck through it.
 
Gene Crucean said:
Yeah I gotcha.

My point (about my nikon) was that a full frame 35mm lens still produces beautiful dof and lens characteristics even with a DX sized sensor.
Click to expand...
Gene, I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. I also think that the DOF of the Scarlet will be shallower than most people might think. I was actually defending the smaller sensor, but also pointing out that you could not use the 35mm lenses without the telephoto problem.
 
Tom said:
Okay, Scarlet shoots 3K, but 3K is not a format, so your projects will finish at 1080p or 2K. So the resolutions are similar to the EX1 or EX3. So then the question becomes, how does Scarlet's dynamic range stack up against Sony's EX1 or EX3? That very much remains to be seen.
Click to expand...

I would wager that 3k scaled down to 2k is going to look way better than any of the competition's 1080p cameras. The noise should be much lower too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top