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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Desired Changes with Scarlet..

A sweeter Spot

A sweeter Spot

3K on 2/3" is a sweet spot for controllable DOF and excellent image quality across a very large number of applications.
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Yes but there's a sweeter spot for people who want a larger sized sensor but don't need more than 3k of data. They are willing to pay for it. If Red is a customer focused company they will do some research, not just dictate what should be good enough.
 
Zach Swena said:
Starting with a 3k 35mm option will be a lot less expensive than having to push out a higher res 2/3" model soon after the release. For me these seem to be the only two options to make that "upgraded simply by purchasing a new brain" marketing phrase come true.
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So Jim should sell you a camera (at probably a loss to RED financially) so you don't have to spend money on 2 sets of lenses ... hmmm, seems a touch 1-sided possibly ?

EDIT: I think it's pretty obvious that if you buy a brain with a bigger sensor, then you need to also have lenses appropriate for that sensor, no ?
 
I recant... :-)

I recant... :-)

Tom said:
silly-pictures, keep in mind that when Scarlet was announced, it was 2/3 3K with a fixed lens, period. Many of here begged Jim to make a 35mm sensor, and we said we were willing to pay more for it. So he has answered our prayers. I'm sorry that he did not make one EXACTLY like you need for the price you can pay, but he is offering a hell of a lot of options.

35mm 2K makes no sense at all, because you will essentially be left with an image that is about 720 quality - which is of little use to most of us. Yes, Genesis and other pro cameras are 2K or 1080p, but most of them hugely oversample the image to achieve that 1080 or 2K. A Bayer-pattern 2K camera will not result in a clean 1080p or 2K.
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I think you are very right. And yes, RED did the absolute most they could do with regard to listening to their customers. Regarding 2k not producing crisp 1080p - i just realized that my lowly HV20 has a native 2k sensor in it...(although being used in cropped mode for motion), so much for 2k producing crisp 1080p - I stand corrected.

BTW, today I saw the RED ONE being operated by Soderbergh on the frontpage of a Swiss Newspaper :
http://www.20min.ch/unterhaltung/kino/story/23103158
that's the online version of that article
Sorry, that was fairly OT.
 
brainburst said:
Yes but there's a sweeter spot for people who want a larger sized sensor but don't need more than 3k of data. They are willing to pay for it. If Red is a customer focused company they will do some research, not just dictate what should be good enough.
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The last thing that Red is doing is dictating anything... the lineup is everyone's dreams that were posted here coming true all at once. Remember that they just created their boards, programs running in the cameras and sensors not too long ago. Look at what they are offering now with R1, every build comes out with more features... ever increasing versatility is their MO with R1...

Look at what they did just ONE day after releasing their specs when they saw so many asking for higher fps on bigger sensor Scarlets... immediately they released new specs with higher fps using a windowed sensor.

With time they will develop more technology, and they are numero uno for not holding back technology for monetary gains... expect the most out of this company, not others.

Now if what you want is to have recording settings so that you can only record a particular resolution and have the down conversion done in-camera, you are talking about a lot more processing power needed... a new board would have to handle this... while I completely agree that it would be a sweet feature and probably the very last frontier for Red to have the most versatile camera ever concieved you have to understand that this would up the cost... perhaps the best way to deliver this is a new module.

However, you can already use proxies that will use only half the resolution, 1/4 the resolution and edit those without the need for downconversion... look at the Mythbusters video on Red.com

However if we could shoot full frame on the S35, or using the FF35 and shoot in windowed S35 mode, PLUS be able to select 2K recording... then that would be the mother @#$ing holy grail.

Always thought about that... but it would require an other board to do the downconversion... so I thin we might see a module coming out eventually that allows you to by-pass the CF slots on the camera and use new CF slots, or plug in your HDD or SSD to this new box... that will probably look like one of those add ons that look like they are part of the camera like in those gorgeous renders in the brochure showing the camera with a matte box and all the other bells and whistles...
 
You are not understanding my request.

You are not understanding my request.

I don't like the 2/3 sensor because of the tiny cell size, mediocre DOF and the requirements entailed for higher quality glass. It doesn't have to be full 35mm sized. It just needs to have larger sized photoreceptors. A larger sensor that ends up at something closer to APS-C size that would accept cost effective glass, even with cropping, would be great!.
This absolutely does not entail anymore R&D
It can use existing technology. The same exact silicon. With higher yields!
All other camera parts could be exactly the same (no separate 2/3" camera body) Really! This is a cost effective winner and the only reason for Red not to pursue it is if they think it would eat into sales of higher priced cameras. They would save so much money by having one fab for all their sensors and one body for all of their Brains!
 
It just needs to take 3k, use 35mm glass, have a minimum frame crop and be priced in the entry level range.

Since $2.5k probably won't happen than probably somewhere under $3.5k. The increased sales from the pricing will offset the decreased margins. $4k would be ok but on the high end.
 
Brain, APS-C is just about what S35 and IMO you will likely never get your wish of something in between 2/3 and S35... you would end up using S35 glass like you said so why not go up to a S35 sensor.

I consider the 2/3 a gift from Red, though they'll probably make their money selling the other Red accessories to the 2/3 owners.

Maybe consider starting with a more limited package for a S35 Scarlet and building up from there.

Maybe you guys need to be reminded of how much something like an HVX-200a costs and what it provides... 1/3", 5 stops, 4:2:2, and 1080p from a sensor with lower than 1080 photosites, a non-fixed aperture lens and it costs $5,500... take out the cost of an equivalent lens and see how much more you are already getting from Red... just saying'
 
USlatin said:
Brain, APS-C is just about what S35 and IMO you will likely never get your wish of something in between 2/3 and S35... you would end up using S35 glass like you said so why not go up to a S35 sensor.

I consider the 2/3 a gift from Red, though they'll probably make their money selling the other Red accessories to the 2/3 owners.

Maybe consider starting with a more limited package for a S35 Scarlet and building up from there.

Maybe you guys need to be reminded of how much something like an HVX-200a costs and what it provides... 1/3", 5 stops, 4:2:2, and 1080p from a sensor with lower than 1080 photosites, a non-fixed aperture lens and it costs $5,500... take out the cost of an equivalent lens and see how much more you are already getting from Red... just saying'
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I know the footage from my HVX looks pretty good, and the others in my film-club are amazed by it, even with its limitations. Remember the HVX provided the best bang-per-buck when it came out.
Now Red aren't just upping the bar, they've kicked it into orbit, even with the lowest Scarlet, which is why I want one, better res, vastly better D/R, just got to hold onto my perspectives, and not wish for what I can't afford.
Sorry to ramble.
David
 
Just common sense

Just common sense

Maybe you guys need to be reminded of how much something like an HVX-200a costs and what it provides... 1/3", 5 stops, 4:2:2, and 1080p from a sensor with lower than 1080 photosites, a non-fixed aperture lens and it costs $5,500... take out the cost of an equivalent lens and see how much more you are already getting from Red... just saying'
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Are comparing the cost of an entire camcorder to the price of a sensor module? That is ridiculous!
While we are comparing, the cell size of the HVX200 is approximately 4.8 microns. How noisy is that camera? The EX-1 cell size works out to be like 3.4 microns. How much noisier will a bayer sensor with only 3.2 micron cells be?
And the point that keeps being missed: Unless you put great glass on a 2/3 inch scarlet it will not achieve it's full resolution. Period! I guarantee if you only put middling glass with this sensor it won't look any better than an EX-1. The nice thing about the RED1 is even mediocre glass, (like the red zoom) was OK, if not great. With the 2/3 sensor and it's tiny cell size (40% smaller than the RED1) a lens like the Red zoom would not cut it. Don't you get it?
I'll say this again. I am not looking for a full 35mm sensor. Not even that close. Just something that uses the same cell size as the 4k and higher cameras. It would end up with like a .85" scanning diagonal size vs the .5" actual scanning diagonal size of a 2/3 sensor. Maybe a 1.2" sensor

I want something that:
  • will not require me to buy expensive glass.
  • will have a more film like DOF
  • will have a low S/N ratio
 
I did forget about sound I guess!

But there is a lot more to noise-less sensors than size. We'll have to wait and see what Misterium-X does.. however it should be like build 16 quality or better even noise wise...even for Scarlet. It was never spelled out that it would have less noise than 2k R1 mode, but it was just about.

Now about the better glass requirement due to smaller photosensors... now I think I get your point, but chill out dude... sorry that I didn't understand what you were saying but I am not so sure you were making yourself clear either. Though maybe it was just me not getting what you were saying. Either way... relax. I understand now.

I think you are forgetting about the fixed lens scarlet though... that glass is supposed to be amazing... from the way they keep talking about it it will certainly meet your requirements and likely exceed them... they talk about it as if it were of the same quality of the new zoom. And you can expect the price to be about that of a new HVX or lower... so the only thing will be audio... we'll have to wait and see how much that will run for if the brains don't have any inputs... however the fixed lens scarlet is also supposed to have at least two channels of 48/16.

It sounds to me like you might be a candidate for the fixed Scarlet... and if you can't get it here you still shouldn't be calling Red a dictator as if they took something away from you when all they do is listen and deliver more than any other company.

I hope you can find something that meets your requirements at a good pricepoint... but if you don't then just get an EX1 right now and try to avoid fast pans... but if 1/2" isn't enough then what do you expect anyone to tell you other that what I already tried to point out..?

Who knows... maybe I am grossly mistaken and Red decides to come out with a bigger sensor... some new size or a slightly more obscure size that is in between...

good luck mate
 
Hey what happened to all of the posts between 10:15 and 8 pm today? Are we being censored?
 
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