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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Its official - Black Magic 4k Cinema Camera

Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Brave of those 1st batch to accept since RED still aren't ready to show any footage yet and haven't finished the firmware fully....
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What's there to fear, at worst you get a new Dragon when they ship. You are dealing with Red not some broke mad scientists
 
There is no rolling shutter since it has a global shutter.
 
Well I waited for a long time for the 3K for 3K Scarlet which was promised. Only to be let down with a price hike after a long wait. Add to that the extortionate cost of Red ssd media etc, So Red did not get my money. I have been waiting for this good news from BM, and I get to use standard SSD media too. Well done Black Magic. Please don't keep me waiting too long.
 
Jaakko Rinne said:
I was sort of interested in BMD's 4K camera before I saw the full specs. I mean, first a step down in dynamic range and apparently the RAW is only 3840*2160, so it'll debayer down to about 3K (although that's a problem with the current Scarlet-X as well). And it doesn't even include a full version of Resolve anymore.

And if the pocket cam also records RAW at just 1920*1080, I don't really see any use for it either.
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"Full version of Resolve with Production Camera 4K. Resolve Lite for Pocket Cinema Camera." ~ Christine Peterson, Community Relations Manager, Blackmagic Design

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6773&start=10#p42672
 
Brandon J.F. said:
Not true. This thread has less than half the views of " NAB13- Dragon Sensor Upgrade Program begins"....
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LOL As matter of fact, I had already checked it out : ) Very true, what tells a lot... RED is alive and kicking. Even if the prices shall fall down for sure. In any case, RED has known how to conform, adapt & make business since Jim started with this healthy craziness ;-)


fantastix said:
fantastix is online now
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Dec 2007
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The fact you as early adopter for 5 years :D have solely tripled posted in this thread is what leaves reduser alone to keep this topic up :P

Felix K. said:
Does he qualify as an early adopter? :D
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Felix, your 3K for 3K arrived but in form of 3.8K for 3.9K :D

Greetings to lovely Bamberg,

E. :-)
 
shashbugu said:
Red Epic is in a whole different Hollywood tentpole market with Arri Alexa, F65 and Aaton.
Scarlet-x VS. F55, F5, C500.
The BMCS35 is going to duke it out with C300, F3, 1DC, Ikonoshop, FS700
5D MK3 vs 6D, old BMCC, D800, Af100, Gh3, C100. 1DX, digi bolex, FS100
PocketCam is a real real game changer, absolutely no competition
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Well, I guess you've just written the missing link to compete with your previous line as far as moving image, yes, cinema concerns.

.../...

shashbugu said:
Lol, haha, I get you, I don't think even James Cameron can afford to crash an Epic. Lol. I would only use this an A cam for a web only project or SD broadcast, like testimonials interviews etc. I don't think these cameras are ready for Narrative film work.
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No comments.
 
Jaakko Rinne said:
I was sort of interested in BMD's 4K camera before I saw the full specs. I mean, first a step down in dynamic range and apparently the RAW is only 3840*2160, so it'll debayer down to about 3K (although that's a problem with the current Scarlet-X as well). And it doesn't even include a full version of Resolve anymore.

And if the pocket cam also records RAW at just 1920*1080, I don't really see any use for it either.
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I would not trust those debayer figures, each photo site is going to record detail, just the debayering process and olpf on most cameras spread it. So, a part of the pixel is unique and a part is it's neighbors data, diluting blurring decontrasting it. However, if people are intelligent they can make software to seek out the unique data and enhance it per pixel to a degree, and regress the foreign neighboring data to a degree before it is displayed. I don't know if anybody has invented such a filter mechanism, not around here, or if It just did, but it is a straight forward mechanism. However, here is the rub, don't expect to restore detail as well as a three primary color pixel system. You would get the detail likely, but the accuracy of the contrast should suffer. You can increase the bit depth, but eventually you should get diminishing returns (wherever you can get fairly accurate 8bit results for display is another thing). Bayed sucks, In should never have left myself be lulled into it. If we had invested the money into a foveon video sensor system we could have had great 4k foveon video sensors by now. After some recent compression advancement on my end I am reasonably confident I could achieve near the level of lossless/visually lossless bayer compression, on three color data. The concentration on stills manufacturer has held them back from 90% of the market. Hopefully this mobile video deal bares fruit really soon, then it should be easier to do it in bigger chips. In realise now most of the facial detail problems Is have been seeing for years are directly related to the handling of bayer image data.
 
Meh, I preordered a Pocket cam anyway.

Seems like a safer bet than anything else I can carry in a....well, pocket. If the usual bloggers post less than favourable reviews then I guess I can get a refund on the deposit, but for $995?

Guess it depends on timing really. If delivery comes on or near the date of my dragon upgrade then maybe ill need that $995 elsewhere!
 
No OLPF in either of these camera folks.
Blackmagic still has not learned their lesson on that front.
I am amazed.

Their new Pocket Camera is a non-starter as a result. Just imagine.
 
Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Brave of those 1st batch to accept since RED still aren't ready to show any footage yet and haven't finished the firmware fully....
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I guess it comes down to trust.
As for me I trust the fact that when we bought an epic M early we had the money back long before the epic X came out... I think now, as we ordered the dragon sensor upgrade a few seconds after they where available in the web shop we will probably have that money in return on rentals before most people even have got their dragons.
And when the Dragons are out I think an epic MX will rent about as good / bad as a scarlet does today. So if you ask me I think it comes down to the fact that you need to have the top dog to stay in the rental game. Simply, getting it late is bad for business.
 
HDMI p50, HDMI to h264 options? And HDMI Bayer option.

HDMI p50, HDMI to h264 options? And HDMI Bayer option.

Wayne Morellini said:
(redit: their distributor support claims it does have p25 mode on the Pocket, but did not find it on the spec page I looked at). This camera is a 1080p s16 camera and no p50 mode is killing it. The 4k camera is also the same, I think I'm going to email them and ask about hdmi p50 modes at least..

It says active sensor area, any chance this is near the near 4/3rds sensor in the original bmc, just with the sensor windowed down to fullhd?

(re-edit, from the talk maybe this is a smaller sensir from the same company, maybe it does have a bit more than fullhd width, and much more depth, both are desirable for reducing flicker and aliasing from no olpf, but p50 is essential, and useable on US TV's.).
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Well, I contacted them. Typical closed mind/door, not actual BM tech person unfortunately, so don't know if anything will get through. No output of p50, but such people ussually would not know that for certain. Went much better last time I did it, just look at the result, but I can't locate that email. No monochrome version.

HDMI Bayer:

Setting it to output p50 and p60 through the HDMI 4:2:2 would work, maybe it is in non recording mode, maybe it has a maintenance option to do so, sine 30p cameras just did it anyway. The other idea I had about HDMI, is that you could transmit Bayer over it. 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, (dies it have any monochrome) allows you to transmit the Bayer pattern. HDMI Bayer, or just HDMI Pattern, for any single chip pattern. You just use a lossless recorder to record it.

Recording to h264:

Now, if it is 4:2:2, or 4:2:0, you might find a a finger stick sized HDMI to h264 recorder somewhere. Using ambarella chipset you should be able to make one. If you hunt around helmet and bullet cam equipment you might find one. Theoretically you could break open a ambarella based pen camera, and make an interface from the HDMI to the chips sensor input, but would be tricky as you have to convert and condition the signal. To get around this you need a converter series to convert the HDMI digital to whatever digital then to the ambarella format, and get the timing right, which would mean coding, so if your lucky the output of the first converter would match the chipset and the timing could be made to match externally, but unlikely.


Ambarella is the chip they maybe could have used, cheap and options.
 
paulherrin said:
hmm... or you could throw me 10k and i'll fix your workflow. maybe i need to take up consulting.
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It's not a bad racket... I make a heck of a lot more as a consultant than a shooter.

As for this 4K BMCC... Saw it, touched it, felt it, etc... Compared to Scarlet, and especially EPIC, it's a toy. OTOH, this is the new "prosumer" and 4K production is about to get very real and there's a definite place in the market for this. IMO, it fits in the market in a comfortable niche right below RED's offerings. For a lot of people this would be plenty of camera.

The pocket camera is cool. I wish it were 2.7K or 3K though. I noticed that by the end of the day the thing was hot enough to fry an egg, kinda like how the SONY NEX-5 series overheats, lol. IMO, it's no better than any of the other new MFT cameras hitting the market, like the GF6. What sets it apart is that its primary function is shooting video, not stills and the formats it will record to. If you still intend to shoot a a fair amount of stills along with your motion, it may not be your best option. ...I'm considering it, but I'm waiting for finalized and detailed specs. So far it's a bit vauge and it was difficult to play with anything other than aiming and focusing the thing because of the constant mob of people trying to get their hands on it.

A few of us at the show were getting the impression that the pocket camera was almost being crippled somewhat so as to not encroach onto the current BMCC's space. IMO, the current BMCC camera, which is only now finally starting to really ship out to people, and is still riddled with issues, is somewhat of a misfit product. IMO, they should do away with it and offer the few customers who've received it a trade-in toward the new 4K model when it ships. Kinda like another company I know of would do... just sayin'
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
That pocket cam is a 5D killer.
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Panasonic GH2 was already a 5D killer. I sold off my 5D and 7D's ages ago. For some reason people still think the 5D is all that and a truckload of chips. whatever...
 
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