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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC job

Zakaree Sandberg

Zakaree Sandberg

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need to grab the red ssd reader..are these readily available?
do they have internal hot swap ability? my sata card on my computer isnt capable for hot swap, so im hoping this is all settled within the reader itself.. (keeping an open connection to my computer, even when the ssd card is out)
 
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If you are talking about RED Station...then yes! I ordered mine two weeks ago. Got here in three days. It's nice.

Assuming they still have them in stock.

Good Luck!
 
If you need hot swap over eSATA then you need a controller that supports hot swap.

That means, not the controller in your Mac Pro, for example. Some of the newest PC MB's support hot swap on the built in SATA... but its often slipshod. Test with non-production media.

There are a number of cheap controllers that have this feature.

While you are at it, you should add "port multiplication" to your list. That feature lets you use the external RAID cases that have several drives but only one eSATA connection.

Port multiplication isn't germane to your immediate issue, but it worth the extra $5-10 if you are buying a card anyway.

Lastly... if you are thinking of making a RAID from drives (or RAID arrays) you might as well get a card with RAID support.

Here is a good, cheap 2 port 6G eSATA adapter that meets all the requirements above.

Newer Tech 6G eSATA card

Firmtek makes a highly reviewed 4 port 3G eSATA card for about $190 at B&H. G-Technology is about to release a 3G eSATA 4 port card with RAID support at around $250

I almost pulled the trigger on one of the 4 port cards... but my homework led me to believe that 6G 3-4 port cards will be on the market soon, and 6G enclosures hot on their heels. I'll probably get the card I linked above to keep me rolling. After I swap it out on my main system I can use it on a cheaper DIT cart solution

Moderating that "wait and see" attitude is the fact that for your stated application- not even SSD drives can saturate a 3G SATA connection yet. So, for now, utilizing 6G eSATA bandwidth requires that you use a RAID array on each eSATA channel for performance.
 
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Ok grabbed the station cf and ssd..

for the record.. they are NOT hot-swappable unless your sata card is hot-swappable...

now i need to find a hot-swappable sata card that will work in my hackintosh
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
ahh you just posted right before me.. i Just hope i find the right card that will work with a hackintosh
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I'd expect that any card that is supported under OS X and Windows will suit you.

The card I linked above fits those criteria as well.

You may want to spend a bit more and get a FirmTek card though. Most other eSATA card brands have some reliability issues with the Mac Pro, especially issues on wake from sleep.

You might want to lean on that proven reliability with a Hackintosh.
 
I'm trying to figure out just what eSATA card you have that wouldn't be hot-swappable. I think I saw you post another thread about it a few days back? Anyway, seems to me that it could be a profile problem due to this being a hackintosh and not an issue with the SATA card itself. Possibly fixed just by editing a config file or two. Could also be a BIOS to AHCI issue too, disabling ACPI support in the BIOS (if you can) might just let it work.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm trying to figure out just what eSATA card you have that wouldn't be hot-swappable. I think I saw you post another thread about it a few days back? Anyway, seems to me that it could be a profile problem due to this being a hackintosh and not an issue with the SATA card itself. Possibly fixed just by editing a config file or two. Could also be a BIOS to AHCI issue too, disabling ACPI support in the BIOS (if you can) might just let it work.
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I had the impression that widespread support for hot swap eSATA was very recent.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I had the impression that widespread support for hot swap eSATA was very recent.
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It's part of the required portion of the spec ever since eSATA was ratified as an accepted standard in 2004.

Reasons you can't hot-swap an eSATA device usually include:

* You're doing it wrong.

* You're improperly grounded -- you didn't just pipe that motherboard's internal header straight out the back of the case, did you?

* Using garbage cables, improper grounding or improperly shielded connectors.

* Some component in your hardware chain predates the official standard and is probably not suitable for use in 2011.

* Hardware conflict.

* Software issue or driver conflict.

* Damaged hardware

* Improper hackintosh configuration

* Seriously, you're doing it wrong
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
It's part of the required portion of the spec ever since eSATA was ratified as an accepted standard in 2004.

Reasons you can't hot-swap an eSATA device usually include:

* You're doing it wrong.

* You're improperly grounded -- you didn't just pipe that motherboard's internal header straight out the back of the case, did you?

* Using garbage cables, improper grounding or improperly shielded connectors.

* Some component in your hardware chain predates the official standard and is probably not suitable for use in 2011.

* Hardware conflict.

* Software issue or driver conflict.

* Damaged hardware

* Improper hackintosh configuration

* Seriously, you're doing it wrong
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I am talking about devices.

You are talking about standards specifications.

Ity is true that hot swap has been part of the SATA standard almost from its inception. A number of the draft standards included hot swap.

There are STILL a number of brand new devices that fail to support this feature.

For example the Mac Pro 2010.

There is no policing or enforcement of compliance. The only thing that changes is that the official logo(s) can not be used for devices that are not fully compliant.

So... I'll say it again: there are a bunch of eSATA cards and SATA MBs that do not support hot swap- despite the standard.

Double check it, usually devices that support hot swapping are labelled as such.

The same goes for port multiplication. Officially part of the standard for a while ... but not supported in devices. Actually that is still very common.

To sum up... all I am saying is that you should double check your devices supported features for every feature you require.

Certainly that isn't so onerous as to merit an argument is it Jeff?
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
There are STILL a number of brand new devices that fail to support this feature.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm talking about external SATA as in eSATA. Which is required to have hot-plug / hot-swap ability in order to carry the official eSATA logo. And it's more than just a specification, the logo also requires testing, certification and licensing.

You're mixing eSATA with SATA. Conventional SATA is not required to have hot-plug or hot-swap abilities. And in many situations such abilities are discouraged unless there is proper buffering and/or switching installed for the power connections. Thus bringing us to...

For example the Mac Pro 2010.
Click to expand...

That's funny. Seeing how it doesn't have eSATA.

Seriously though, I'll ask you to name one eSATA device, that carries the eSATA official logo, that does not offer hot-swap ability. And, FWIW, hot-swap works just fine on '07 and '08 Mac Pro towers that had the spare ODD SATA headers, if you piped them out the rear with proper grounding. Just had to make a small adjustment to one plist and one kext file to fully enable. Many people reported success with no changes.

So... I'll say it again: there are a bunch of eSATA cards and SATA MBs that do not support hot swap- despite the standard.
Click to expand...

I have built over 100 systems in the past 2 years. I have yet to encounter one PC motherboard that does not provide hot-swap ability on its eSATA ports. Internally-designated SATA hosts are another matter.

The same goes for port multiplication. Officially part of the standard for a while ... but not supported in devices. Actually that is still very common.
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Port multiplication is an opt-in feature of the spec. But any good controller supports that too. If you buy the $10 Dynex from Wal-Mart, you're not going to get reliable port multiplier support, assuming it's even there at all. Hot-swap is required for the device to be an officially labeled eSATA device and to carry the logo. And yes, there is testing and approval to license the logo. As I said above, so there is policing of the standard as you put it. But they can't stop knock-off manufacturers who fraudulently claim to be "eSATA" or fraudulently use the official eSATA logo. Pretty easy to pick up such devices from street vendors in Akihabara, HongKong and other large markets where it's also easy to buy bootlegged DVD's, software, etc.. Of course there are limits. But here in the USA, if you walk into any typical electronics or computer store and pick up an eSATA adapter or device, it will support hot-swap. Period. End of story. If you find one that doesn't, see my above list.

To sum up... all I am saying is that you should double check your devices supported features for every feature you require.

Certainly that isn't so onerous as to merit an argument is it Jeff?
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I'm really not trying to argue. Just stating the way it's supposed to be and the way it is 99.99% of the time if you're buying components that are not fraudulently using the eSATA logo. Which does happen from time to time in shady markets. If you're buying an eSATA card and it doesn't have the official eSATA logo on the box, put it back on the shelf and move to the next one. Seriously though, buy a good one -- CalDigit, Sonnet, ATTO, HighPoint, Areca, etc..

I'm still curious as to which eSATA adapter Zakaree is using. I still think it's an AHCI/ACPI issue and/or an OSX profile issue. In a hackintosh situation, As Dan said above, might bet able to tweak a .kext to solve the issue if disabling ACPI doesn't eliminate the problem. Chances are the card works properly and hot-swaps just fine if he boots into Windows on this system... And we also have to realize that not all SATA/eSATA host controllers have proper driver support in OSX. JMicron controllers or notorious for being OSX-worthless, for example.
 
it wasnt a hackintosh or profile issue.. I didnt even have a esata card.. it was just a direct connection to the board (which itself doesnt support hot swap i guess)
so i need to pick up a real esata card
 
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