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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

THE M8 (008) Discussion thread

As Steve has said, if he is shooting for TV he shoots 29.97 project rate, not 24f film rate. Even for a Vimeo clip you would have an extremely difficult time finding any video camera that would carry the dynamic range and shadow detail Epic showed. Some people just have no idea what they are actually seeing.
 
Jean Pierre Schoch said:
As I said in the first line of my last post, I really thank you guys for your contribution, your time and your experience that let us know more about the EPIC camera. I have learned a lot in this forum from people like you, with great experiences.

Then, I don't mean to be disrespectful, if you thought so, my apology. I just said, that locations and subjects are really important in photography/cinematography, and that your shot wasn't so appealing because of that (I'm talking about the skiing shots). I didn't said something offensive or trying to be an art critic, I just say what I think, and I believe being honest is a good way to face life.

Anyway, having different points of view, personal taste is a good thing :-) otherwise the world would be boring :-)

PS. I saw before your library and I found it very rich and nice
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Thank you Pierre...as always, I'm happy to help and contribute here on Red user. In my last post to Rob I summarized what I was trying to achieve with those field tests - including the skiing shots. That will shed some more light on this field testing.

I make no apologies for the results - we achieved what we set out to do, the camera performed perfectly in difficult circumstances, and the response has has been overwhelmingly positive.

Check the Recon M8 thread for a ton of positive responses to the footage. If I was a beginner at this industry, I'd probably take the negative comment better - but I'm not, I know exactly what I'm doing, and exactly what we set out to test. Opinions are great - but how, where, and when they're expressed can make a world of difference in how they're received. Thank you for your kind words on my footage library...:)
 
Steve Gibby said:
Thanks David...:-)

You're right! I've shot a lot of Kodachrome in days past, and your analogy surely fits. Since you mentioned Kodachrome, beyond the seven National Parks close around me here (5 in southern Utah, Grand Canyon in AZ, and Great Basin in Nev) there is also a beautiful state park of red rock canyons in Utah named Kodachrome Basin. It got that name way back in the '60's because so many still photographers were shooting there - and most of them were choosing to use Kodachrome - couldn't imagine using Ektachrome on those red cliffs, right!

Come on over here and pay us a visit and we'll take Epic over to Kodachrome Basin to match aesthetic with aesthetic...:)
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Love to do so! Maybe after I get my Scarlet. Suzy wants to visit her old Montana stomping grounds, so a road trip may be in the works for next fall/winter. :smile5:

The coloristas outdid themselves grading that canyon footage. So nice to see Red footage that isn't graded with the currently popular desaturated cinema looks.
 
Andrew M. said:
Filmic look or lack of it has nothing to do with EPIC prototype.

It has everything to do with technique and the person behind it.
Ketch has his own technique and it is very unique. I love his way of filming.

Getting traditional “judder-filled 24p narrative” was not the objective here.

This one is coming to the theatre near you from the other 80 or so EPICs that were already shipped out there.
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True...

But those techniques of shooting with Red One, and now Epic are mine, not necessarily Ketch's. Ketch is an excellent still photographer, cinematographer, director, business associate, and friend. Though we collaborated on our goals, he really didn't have to direct me on this shooting - we were on my type of turf, shooting in my hybrid EFP style of shooting.

The bottom line is the diversity of approaches to using a camera like Epic. Being small, scalable, and with a variety of frame rates and features, this camera morphs into just about whatever you need it to be - no matter what your shooting, style, industry, or genres you work in. If everyone just shot and tested Epic in 24p narrative everyone here would have a mono-dimensional view of the capabilities of Epic. I'm one of those guys with an alternative approach to using Red One and now Epic. To each their own...
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Thank you for your work guys. Much appreciated.

Steve, any chance for a .r3d grab ? I'd say there's much more juice in there then visible on Vimeo.
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Thanks!

Working on possibly posting a r3d grab or two...

If you read the comments of our colorist Neil Smith on the Recon thread, who has viewed the raw and graded footage in 4k - his comments would reflect mine - immersive, fantastic amount of detail, etc. Yes, the Vimeo compression get the files before people, but the price is a considerable loss of detail and contrast.
 
Hmmm... just reading backwards through this thread and the vimeo comments.

I don't want to derail this thread, but if someone was expecting a Hollywood "movie" and because they didn't see a "movie" came to the conclusion that a DSLR is better... what can you say to that?
 
Robert Frank said:
Hmmm... just reading backwards through this thread and the vimeo comments.

I don't want to derail this thread, but if someone was expecting a Hollywood "movie" and because they didn't see a "movie" came to the conclusion that a DSLR is better... what can you say to that?
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Exactly Robert ;)
 
Robert Frank said:
I don't want to derail this thread, but if someone was expecting a Hollywood "movie" and because they didn't see a "movie" came to the conclusion that a DSLR is better... what can you say to that?
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That they can sit back and relax while waiting to see a trailer for The Hobbit or Spider-man hit their local theater?
 
David Rasberry said:
Love to do so! Maybe after I get my Scarlet. Suzy wants to visit her old Montana stomping grounds, so a road trip may be in the works for next fall/winter. :smile5:

The coloristas outdid themselves grading that canyon footage. So nice to see Red footage that isn't graded with the currently popular desaturated cinema looks.
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Bring it on! We have tons of room for you and Suzy here on our ranch. It sits in a forested valley at 5,000', surrounded by 10,000' mountains and looks right into a National Park. There are also seven national parks within a few hours drive of my ranch. I end up driving a few hours to Vegas to fly out for work, and about seven hours to L.A. when I need to, but its an outdoor lifestyle choice living here - and me and my wife are way happy with that choice.

I thought the colorists did an exceptional job with the footage. They, along with our entire crew, donated our time to this project - simply because of our passion to get out and shoot Epic and process some footage from it. Now we're taking the time to share that passion with our friends here on Red User.
 
EPIC-M8 in a mini-cine setup on the Gearnex...

KETCH ROSSI said:
Thanks Dino for all the good stuff, btw we also end up getting the Bottom Riser and Top adaptor form ET for our Cine Style set up, and have
to say that the Bottom Riser is SOLID and mounts on the Hybrid like a beauty, and the Top adaptor makes for many mounting options ;)

L1010093.jpeg
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Robert Frank said:
Thanks guys! Great first real world, hands on tests.

EPIC can clearly handle high contrast lighting as shown with the bright sunlit mountains with the deep shadows.

The motion in the overcranked (@5K!) shots look silky smooth, great detail in the flying snow. That super flat light looks like it was the opposite sunlight compared to the mountain shots.

Looking forward to more tests!
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Thanks Robert! We had some real fun out there, as you can see from the behind the scenes videos and still photos.

Yes, Epic handles high contrast lighting easily - and I never even went to HDRx™™ to do so.

The smoothness of the slow motion was a result of the camera setup combination of project frame rate/Varispeed overcrank/shutter speed I elected to use. I posted the exact setup details of that on the Recon M8 thread.

Currently brainstorming other situations and scenarios to put Epic in - but now Ketch has the camera down in California and we're prepping for some really cool cine style shooting, some 3D production, and lots of extraordinary projects. You can see from the photo of Epic M8 that Joseph just posted that Epic is a chameleon that can be morphed into what you need it to be for that day's shooting. Very cool indeed...

Fun times...:)
 
Stephen Lovett said:
Hey Steve, Ketch, Joseph,

A big thanks, I'm super impressed by the latitude especially in the high contrast scenes at the beginning and the tunnel scene, and holding the detail in the snow. Thanks for the "reel" world update, and taking the time to put together your work and tests for us.

I for one really appreciate it.

Steve
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Thank you Stephen...

Yes, Epic has incredible latitude and dynamic range - even without going to HDRx! Soon we'll delve into the world of HDRx too though. Can't wait...

Thanks again for your support...
 
I do NOT think Steve went on this shoot to capture award winning images. These are basic test shots in an outdoor setting with natural lighting only.

One of the the main reason why i am interested in these test is because i want to see how the EPIC handles harsh contrast. Shooting on snow, water or in the shadows of a desert during the day its is very common to have light readings in the sun past F16 and in the shade as low as F2. RED has made monumental leaps catching film in this department which in my world of shooting was the biggest problem with digi in the outdoors.

Steve's test are not for people that shoot in controlled lighting all the time. One good thing about reduser is that people on here work in different areas of production. But sometimes some have a hard time understanding that there world of photography doesn't apply to others. If i went to Hollywood and worked in a major studio as a cameraman right now i would fail big time. But if you took one of the best Hollywood Cinematographers and put him in my shooting environment they would fail miserably as well. Two different worlds of shooting. Steve's world applies to me.

Thanks for the test Steve.
 
For the Record - WARNING 5D MKII shots in the link ... hehehe

For the Record - WARNING 5D MKII shots in the link ... hehehe

i would just like to add, to the guest visitors to this thread, with all due respect to the manufacturer of such device - that no 5d of current version will show any such detail in the snow and rocks and trees and so forth, like we have seen in Steve´s EPIC M8 footage ...

It looks AWESOME to my eye. As well as does Dino´s LAX + Hollywood BLV stuff ...

Just to add to everyones pain ... ;-) ... I mean, who can seriously shot anything without an EPIC after seeing these "ordinary, undressed images" ... unfold ... ??



Here is a story of pain and proof in the misty pudding (for red doubters only ;-)

I happen to have been at the harbor in Rimini (Italy) yesterday ...
with a fantastic - out of this world misty mood - the fishermen just came in to unload ... the mixture of mist and afternoon sunlight breaking through ...
It was a scenery, like i have not seen in 10 years ... unique situation ....

(click here to see image link of misty mood in rimini)


i happened to have had a 5DMKII with me .... uuupps.

BOYS! DID I WISH FOR STEVE, KETCH AND THE EPIC with me!!!!!!!! ....
 ... and Joseph - of course!

CONSTANTLY ! NON STOP ! I WAS SERIOUSLY MISSING DYNAMIC RANGE and RESOLUTION
and i would have loved to have 120 and RAW ... and everything ELSE!



So, here it is, again and just for the record:
... in my view, current 5D MKII is a joke, it is a web video toy.

Please quote me on this ... ;-) ... ehehe
 
i would just like to add, to the guest visitors to this thread, with all due respect to the manufacturer of such device - that no 5d of current version will show any such detail in the snow and rocks and trees and so forth, like we have seen in Steve´s EPIC M8 footage ...
Click to expand...

This test was about Dynamic Range for me.

As a Post-Supervisor/DIT my biggest wish was Dynamic Range going into the test shoot.

It's not what you capture in camera, it's what you can do with the image that count in the movie.

This camera is a dream come true from DR point of view.

You can quote me on this.

"There are those who lead, some follow, and the rest get left behind."

Who are you?

RED is Leading.

Cheers

Michael Thornton
 
Thanks Michael...I agree fully :)

To give another twist on your analogy, there are three types of people in the world (and in this industry):

1) Those who make things happen

2) Those who watch (or simply criticize) what is happening

3) Those who wonder what the heck just happened

I'm a Type 1, as are each of our crew this past week, all of Red Team, and a huge percentage of the members of Red User. But unfortunately there is also no shortage in this industry (and in the world) of Types 2 and 3
 
hehe ...

i am type 1, too,

could also be 101001110011 .... hehe ....

but i have to admit .... in another context as you have put it, obviously ...
i sometimes find myself in position 3, too ... ;-)

Isn´t nature the most awesome artist and does type 3 stuff to type 1 folks?

I am positive,
when shooting a hot babe with the EPIC first time,
I will DEFINITLY FEEL TYPE 3 ...

lol ...

;-)
 
If you look at the first still posted with the scooter its easy to se how much details vimeo eats up. I can only imagine what the raw files holds! and this was with no hdrx as I understand. Any 1080p download able version anytime soon?
 
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