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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY Comments

Shane Betts said:
Ed Burns says he's now getting his movies in the can for under $10k. Exchange his DSLR for a Scarlet and open an ODEMAX account. How many indie cinemas do you need across the US, Europe, Asia and Australia to make money on THAT business model?
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Content will reign supreme. And if you have skills, who knows what could happen. Now is the time for artists to work together -- more than any other.
 
Phil Holland said:
From what I recall Avengers had a post schedule of 7/8-ish months depending on how you look at it. Post began while the production was filming (and actually a little bit before hand too), common these days. I think over a dozen houses ended up working on it. I don't consider 3D conversion full blown post production; but more part of post production, and it does take time.[
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I've been told that very high-quality 3D dimensionalizing takes about 1 week per 3 minutes of footage, so that would be well over 40 weeks just for a 2-hour movie. If they're making changes while the footage is being done, it can go even longer. I think the 3D conversion in Avengers was about the best I've ever seen, particularly the handheld shots walking up stairs, turning corners, stuff like that -- just straight live-action shots that must've been a bear to do.
 
Same here...
I know it can benefit the Indian Film Industry immensely, and hence trying to work on something that could actually "work" here, in our otherwise totally ill-organized distribution & exhibition industry.

Jon, hope you have a smart plan for India as well :)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Agreed.

Have this urge to wrap my head arond technicalities, too.
Really trying to tame that beast these days...
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Ive decided Ill just hire people smarter than me to figure out the best 4K VFX pipeline (and rather to focus on stories that don't need VFX) and if I do need VFX., then the current reality will encourage me to try and shoot more "practical" in camera effects - Models, Miniatures, etc
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Ive decided Ill just hire people smarter than me to figure out the best 4K VFX pipeline (and rather to focus on stories that don't need VFX) and if I do need VFX., then the current reality will encourage me to try and shoot more "practical" in camera effects - Models, Miniatures, etc
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You know what, I really dig practical effects over 3d animation a lot.

Would've loved to be able to master to prores 4444, though, butwhat the heck.
Spend some time rendering dpx's. Spend some more time encoding .RED material. Spend some time uploading.

So much if my work is doing so good these days that it feels like a huge anachronism.
 
When can we sign up for a channel?
 
I was thinking it would be nice to get our own channels set up even before we get the player so we could hit the ground running after receiving the plug-in to encode to .RED. Seems like ODEMAX could make that happen.
 
Jon Farhat said:
1. Your movies, and the ODEMAX license that authorizes it to play on your player can of course be offloaded to external storage and re-ingested later.

2. Movies purchased for home or personal use, (non-theatrical) will be licensed in perpetuity. They are yours. They are however licensed to your player, or group of players. Licenses can be transferred within your account to other players, as previous ones are decommissioned. And yes, even if an asteroid hit ODEMAX and all its network datacenters, you can still play what you've purchased, 'offline'. If you're offline, you just won't be able to buy new movies or take advantage of free material.
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This sounds very good to me so far. Please allow one more DRM-related question: What happens if the aliens eat ODEMAX alive and my RedRay machine goes bye-bye, too? Would it be possible to transfer my player "identity" to a different player somehow (or transfer my movie licenses to a new player) without the ODEMAX network? Or would it alternatively be possible to repair my player by doing a mainboard swap etc? Just want to be sure my purchased movies are really "safe", even if ODEMAX goes out of business. I've heard of other cases where people bought & downloaded DRM'ed content and then lost it all when the DRM network got out of business and shut down. So that's why I'm asking so many paranoid questions, sorry about that!

Some DRM unrelated questions:

(1) Any schedule for making ODEMAX available in Germany? (The same content as in USA would do perfectly fine.)

(2) I suppose the RR inside the consumer RED projector is also not affected by HDMI format/bandwidth limitations (same as with the theater projector), correct?

(3) I guess there's no ballpark estimate yet for end user prices for buying movies from the major Hollywood studios, because in the end it will be totally up to the studios?

Thanks!!
 
Here is a quote from a previous reply to the same question

1. Your movies, and the ODEMAX license that authorizes it to play on your player can of course be offloaded to external storage and re-ingested later.

2. Movies purchased for home or personal use, (non-theatrical) will be licensed in perpetuity. They are yours. They are however licensed to your player, or group of players. Licenses can be transferred within your account to other players, as previous ones are decommissioned. And yes, even if an asteroid hit ODEMAX and all its network datacenters, you can still play what you've purchased, 'offline'. If you're offline, you just won't be able to buy new movies or take advantage of free material.

Larry​



 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Ive decided Ill just hire people smarter than me to figure out the best 4K VFX pipeline (and rather to focus on stories that don't need VFX) and if I do need VFX., then the current reality will encourage me to try and shoot more "practical" in camera effects - Models, Miniatures, etc
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You can do it, Tim. Just be selective about your VFX approach, as you suggest. Obviously, trying to shoot Spiderman with a $10K VFX budget, might not be the best move (in the right hands though - even this could be cool - indie Spidey)...there is a LOT that CAN be done with creative thinking. In my conception, now would be a good time for filmmakers to do two things...

1. Study (we should never stop learning)

2. Link up with others of various skill sets (also, as you suggest).


Best,

Eryc
 
This sounds like it could be a typical scenario.

Last night I was in the Glendale Galleria at the food court.
"Wow, Bento & Roll" just remodeled with a large, 4 screen wall panel running a one minute, scripted drama promo video in a loop.
Immediately I thought that a Red Ray player could up-convert the video file to 4K, and then feed all 4 screens.
The content could be changed periodically by Corporate and uploaded over Odemax.
Unfortunately, no one could tell me what was involved with the system they are currently using.

If I am understanding Odemax correctly, this could be one of many typical uses.
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Ive decided Ill just hire people smarter than me to figure out the best 4K VFX pipeline (and rather to focus on stories that don't need VFX) and if I do need VFX., then the current reality will encourage me to try and shoot more "practical" in camera effects - Models, Miniatures, etc
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Or... GASP... focus on the story you want to tell.

And if it needs VFX that costs too much to do at 4K, do it at 2K or wait for things to get cheaper.

Seriously. 4K is great. But don't let the tail wag the dog.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Or... GASP... focus on the story you want to tell.

And if it needs VFX that costs too much to do at 4K, do it at 2K or wait for things to get cheaper.

Seriously. 4K is great. But don't let the tail wag the dog.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Yeah, people are simply musing. I think we get it; for the most part VFX should be at the service of story, and meld somewhat seamlessly to support narrative. I have historically been of the, "function should dictate form" mindset. But in this age, you have to figure out what works for you and embrace that approach. Knowing your audience and branding yourself within that audience is as important as what you communicate.

Besides, rules are always made to be broken. I had a production class, and a set of instructors castigated me for using jumps cuts a couple times in a film. My response...I made a film with NOTHING BUT JUMP CUTS. Guess what -- they loved it.

Fluidity and creative thinking will see you to the finish line.

The only rule appears to be -- there are no rules at the end of the day.
 
Randall Weatherington said:
This sounds like it could be a typical scenario.

Last night I was in the Glendale Galleria at the food court.
"Wow, Bento & Roll" just remodeled with a large, 4 screen wall panel running a one minute, scripted drama promo video in a loop.
Immediately I thought that a Red Ray player could up-convert the video file to 4K, and then feed all 4 screens.
The content could be changed periodically by Corporate and uploaded over Odemax.
Unfortunately, no one could tell me what was involved with the system they are currently using.

If I am understanding Odemax correctly, this could be one of many typical uses.
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This is awesome. Great idea.
 
Eryc Tramonn said:
Yeah, people are simply musing. I think we get it; for the most part VFX should be at the service of story, and meld somewhat seamlessly to support narrative. I have historically been of the, "function should dictate form" mindset. But in this age, you have to figure out what works for you and embrace that approach. Knowing your audience and branding yourself within that audience is as important as what you communicate.

Besides, rules are always made to be broken. I had a production class, and a set of instructors castigated me for using jumps cuts a couple times in a film. My response...I made a film with NOTHING BUT JUMP CUTS. Guess what -- they loved it.

Fluidity and creative thinking will see you to the finish line.

The only rule appears to be -- there are no rules at the end of the day.
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Cheers to that :beer: Yeah :) All in service of the better film. All should be on the table and nothing should be held sacred over the creative quality of the finished product. Even 4K - which currently for VFX adds a lot of cost and cumbersomeness - needs to be sacrificed IF IT MUST and you can get a superior product by sacrificing it (I'd rather have a 2K VFX shot where everything is nicely done than a 4K shot that looks rushed because it needed another revision pass or two). Yes, in 2013 and in 2014 that cumbersomeness and cost will decrease, hopefully to the point that it isn't a major issue for most cases.

But ultimately technical things that very likely won't be missed by the audience need to be sacrificed in favor of doing stuff that actually matters on screen. And there are no rules and no sacred cows. That's all I'm saying...

Anyway, yay, finally agreement!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Cheers to that :beer: Yeah :) All in service of the better film. All should be on the table and nothing should be held sacred over the creative quality of the finished product. Even 4K - which currently for VFX adds a lot of cost and cumbersomeness - needs to be sacrificed IF IT MUST and you can get a superior product by sacrificing it (I'd rather have a 2K VFX shot where everything is nicely done than a 4K shot that looks rushed because it needed another revision pass or two). Yes, in 2013 and in 2014 that cumbersomeness and cost will decrease, hopefully to the point that it isn't a major issue for most cases.

But ultimately technical things that very likely won't be missed by the audience need to be sacrificed in favor of doing stuff that actually matters on screen. And there are no rules and no sacred cows. That's all I'm saying...

Anyway, yay, finally agreement!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Thank you, sir. :cheers2:

The general audience seems to believe damn near whatever you show them. Which is scary. I've experienced this personally. Something that I thought was an obvious cheat was apparently good enough to fool people. Even straight editorial can be enough to suggest things. Again, it's all about smart planning.

Soderbergh has been leading the field from a usage standpoint, he is repeatedly showing us what is possible. Girlfriend Experience did it for me.

As for SFX, Trompe l'oeil is where it's at. Do as much in cam, as possible, and then let VFX pick up the remainder. Film history is a great place to start because only recently have we had computers to assist in storytelling. Yet, we currently have over 100 years of film history, optical techniques and trial and error to guide us.

I, for one, will pattern myself more after the French New Wavers in this modern era. They reacted against the dominance of the studio system, and an entire movement/aesthetic was born. We have access to more than they ever did, and yet people quibble over the most infinitesimal engineering details of one bad ass camera. I guess that's cool; we should know what our tools are capable of, so we can play to their strengths and avoid pitfalls. But...com'on...

At a certain point, it's all academic, unless you intend to build your own camera...and I'm not in that game. But lucky for us, we have the most brilliant, capable, financed and dedicated group of individuals on our side. :yesnod:

Time to just use the tools. Are there problems? Sure. But I'd rather collectively solve them than pine about them.
 
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