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Zeiss Standard Speeds or Angenieux Rouge?

T

Tim Duran

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I am at a fork in the road and would like some input from you guys. What would be the best tack for me to take on forming a productive lens collection. I have Standard Speeds largely from 16 to 180. Would it be better for me to pick up a 14 and 20 to fill in some gaps, or save the money toward another Rouge? I have two Reds and several matched Standard Speed lenses for two camera work. I'm debating whether or not to try to complete my Standard Speed collection or forget it and buy another pair of Rouge lenses. The Std Speeds I'm missing are the more expensive ones: 10, 12, 14, 65. Add these together I can buy another 16-42 for two camera work. Thoughts?

(I'm not interested in Red lenses until the qualifier "...for the price" is gone. And I'm not interested in MkIII's because everyone says they need to be shot at T2 or more due to design issues, so what's the point of buying a Super Speed 1.3 at twice the cost of a Standard Speed? I can afford a 16-80 Rouge set at $40k, but I can't afford just two Master lenses at $40k or 1 1/2 Leica's at $40K. I do like the compactness of my Std Speeds. And I like the very crisp images from my Rouges.)

I've been pondering this issue now for months. I would like to hear fresh takes from you on my problem. I need to do something soon since I don't have enough lenses to properly fit out my two Reds let alone two Epics on the way.
 
Hey Tim, start that Leica set!

haha...I am always having lens delima. Sounds to me your standard set is pretty solid, maybe add a 14 but I personally dont see the need to fill every gap. I would leen for another Rouge, could prove useful if you wind up doing 3D work and as you mentioned matching for 2 cameras. Hope this helps...
 
Tim Duran said:
And I'm not interested in MkIII's because everyone says they need to be shot at T2 or more due to design issues, so what's the point of buying a Super Speed 1.3 at twice the cost of a Standard Speed? I can afford a 16-80 Rouge set at $40k, but I can't afford just two Master lenses at $40k or 1 1/2 Leica's at $40K. I do like the compactness of my Std Speeds. And I like the very crisp images from my Rouges.)
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Click to expand...

The wider Standards porthole until T4, which is 2 stops slower than T4. Rouge seems like a good compromise if your happy to have a zoom.
 
Tim, I'm in the same boat as you but I only have the one R1, however I will have an Epic too soon. I think my Standards are actually sharper than my 16-42 but only just. I think you can't go wrong either way but if you already have one set of Rouges (I only have the 16-42 and am saving for the 30-80) then it makes more sense to round out your standard speed set. I honestly think they will become even more popular with Epic being so small, for those impossibly cramped shots the DSLRs do so well now.

I have the 12 & 20mm but not the 10 or 14mm. I find the 12 covers pretty much everything the other two can and is 1/2 the price of either, it's not spectacular optically but it more than holds it's own. The 20mm is my favorite wide T2.1, I think it's almost identical to the UP formula, that and the 28mm and 40mm are my go to primes. So maybe get a 12mm and a set of Rouges.
BTW I do not know of a 65mm standard speed, there is the 60mm T3 macro and the 65mm T1.3 MII super speed.
 
Optimo's no question about it, in my mind at least.

I always like to have zooms covering roughly 15-80 available for each camera. I'd probably get the 15-40 & 28-76 if your budget supports it. (Otherwise the 16-42 and 30-80 DP lenses)

They usually end up used as "variable primes", but the flexibility & speed matter to me.

I'd grab a Duclos/Tokina 11-16 while you are at it. They are cheap, but worth way more than their price.

Out of curiosity... have any of you ever worked with a mixed set of Optimo and DP lenses?
 
Alexander, I was considering the 15-40 and 28-76. Problem is they do not cover S35 as well as the Rouges do. AND (read AND) they are nearly double the price of the Rouge Optimos. Good thing about the 28-76 is that Angenieux makes extenders for them. This opens to full S35+ but at a cost of two stops.

Thanks all for your input. Nice to know others are having the same conflicts I'm having.
 
The practical realities of dealing with the Rouge set vs the Zeiss Standards would sway me to the zooms. Easier to transport, less lens changes, similar performance characteristics (and that's coming from a long time prime zealot) and when you need to do a live zoom they can. I would add the Duclos/Tokina 11-16, I have one and love it.

If I was starting from scratch tomorrow and had the budget I would put the 3 zooms in a nice case and that would be my day to day kit, rent anything else as needed, maybe get a PL converted 150-600 Canon or something to cover the tele end if you can afford it.

Cheers - #19
 
I'm in a dilemma between the Angenieux Rouge set and the Cooke Panchros. They are both T2.8. I looked at the 16 -42 today and loved it. It gave me a thought of buying the 16 - 42 DP and also the PANCHRO 75MM and 100m to make a 3 lens set. Would they match? I know they are both warmer than the Zeiss lenses ( looked at Compact Primes today and did not like them) . Is this a stupid idea or should I just stick to either of panchros or a Rouge set?
 
Robin, I now have both the 16-42 and 30-80. I love them both, but people more knowledgeable in the field than me who work with them now swear by the pair. No one has ever complained about the slower speed issue. Having a two, three or ten lens set means nothing, especially when they don't cut well. If you really need the longer lenses, then consider talking to Duclos about their new 70-200 (or whatever it is). They service Angenieux and will give you good advice on what cuts best.

As I said in another thread a week or so ago, if you don't have to buy now, wait until after NAB. Angenieux is talking new lenses and/or extenders. And there should be more timely reviews about what's out there lens-wise.

Good luck
 
Tim, Thanks for the advice. I'm going to go for the 2 rouges. It makes more sense. I just need to sell my super speeds first!
 
Gunleick, don't despair. After buying the Angenieux set, I came across Utterbach's going out of business sale and bought some of his hard to find lenses that filled in the gaps of what I didn't have. So now I also have a set of Standard Speeds from 12 to 180 all at a very favorable price point. That being said, some are so heavy that I'm not sure why I did it other to say I have a complete set. Woppie!

Where they will come in handy I'm sure is on the Epic where these light weight lenses will shine.
 
Robin, here's a suggestion. When buying the Angenieux's, shop around. I paid between $19,000 and $20,000 each. The more you can add to your package, the lower you're net will be. Also, if you can swing it, offer cash and no cc. That bought me free shipping and insurance plus shaved off a few more bucks. Further, the dollar is a bit stronger today than when I bought, so you may get a savings on this as well.

(I promised not to divulge who I bought it from, so don't ask. Hint: check out the better used equipment dealers. They sometimes have access to new stuff.)

Polite haggling never hurts. People I deal with know I don't pay retail for anything, other than Red stuff.
 
Hi Tim. I'm based in the UK. I've been quoted £13,000, which is about 20,000 USD. I've got a set of Super Speeds. I was going to go to some of the main US Second hand dealers and see if they would do a trade in.
 
very sharp. very light. decent bokeh. that's kind of about it.

breathing isn't so good, mismatched speeds, and full frame. i feel like there are better choices for the price unless you need the full frame. I usecd to dig them, but i feel like they have no character anymore...
 
I don't particularly need to cover a FF image circle. My plan is to wind up with two S35 Epics. What are some better alternatives without getting into the $10,000+/prime range?
 
Tim Duran said:
If you really need the longer lenses, then consider talking to Duclos about their new 70-200 (or whatever it is). They service Angenieux and will give you good advice on what cuts best.

As I said in another thread a week or so ago, if you don't have to buy now, wait until after NAB. Angenieux is talking new lenses and/or extenders.
Click to expand...

Anyone think the new lens/lenses Angenieux have up their sleeve for NAB could in fact be a 70-200 Rouge?

How awesome a set would that make, 16-42/30-80/70-200 sharing matched size and weight and optical performance.

At a price point of 20k each and possibly a package deal for all 3 in the 50's it would be very hard to look past. That set would be killer
 
Sure hope Trevor is correct about the 3 lens Rouge set. I love my RPPs but the realities of carting around that big case and doing lots of lens swaps is a non-starter on some projects.

I have been planning to get the Canon mount and use the wonderful Canon 70-200 2.8 IS USM zoom for those focal lengths but, IMHO, nobody makes a better zoom for motion work that Angenieux. Moreover, it would sure be sweet to stay PL mount.

Cheers - #19
 
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