V-Raptor Sensor Issues

[Charles Bergquist]

It is not, I haven't heard anything from Red Support on a specific fix for my camera. Waiting until the New Year when they are all back in the offices to send it in. The biggest issue is that I wasn't offered a loaner camera.

 

[Manuel Wenger]

Pulling the trigger on a Raptor myself soon and looking into this as well. Not a dealbreaker at all, just good to know it can happen. And still if it happens, the footage is stll useable, have seen terrible grainy footage or rolling shutter footage in cinema productions that are far worse than this

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Product Management
December 08, 2021 14:01

RED takes all customer feedback seriously and is looking into sample images that have recently been shared online. The few images we have seen until now appear to have an artifact during a very rare combination of scene lighting and lens setting that has not been visible with most customers or shooting conditions.

An internal assessment has confirmed that the sensor is functioning as designed and performs above expectations with image quality. The artifact that was shared online has instead been verified to arise from internal reflections during uncommon shooting conditions. The team is now working on a solution for those select customers and will come back with more updates as soon as possible.

This is the staple response from RED - “things performing as they should, and it’s extremely rare”….when in reality, it’s not. It’s a serious defect that’s impacting a lot of cameras and shooting situations. I understand and appreciate RED’s drive to get the camera out asap, but at what cost? I have loved red and everything they stood for for so long, but in recent years, it feels their customer service and support have really fallen by the waist side. It’s a bummer, and I feel they aren’t really the drivers of the industry anymore…since other brands have stepped up to the plate. I’m hoping Red can get back on track

 

[Nick Morrison]

This is the staple response from RED - “things performing as they should, and it’s extremely rare”….when in reality, it’s not. It’s a serious defect that’s impacting a lot of cameras and shooting situations. I understand and appreciate RED’s drive to get the camera out asap, but at what cost? I have loved red and everything they stood for for so long, but in recent years, it feels their customer service and support have really fallen by the waist side. It’s a bummer, and I feel they aren’t really the drivers of the industry anymore…since other brands have stepped up to the plate. I’m hoping Red can get back on track

I think this is a little harsh. Honestly I think RED has been doing much better since Gemini and Komodo. We work with both of those cams, and they are flawless.

I also think the tenor of these boards - and the industry disregard for RED - only magnifies a number of issues.

 

[Mattia Palombi]

Pulling the trigger on a Raptor myself soon and looking into this as well. Not a dealbreaker at all, just good to know it can happen. And still if it happens, the footage is stll useable, have seen terrible grainy footage or rolling shutter footage in cinema productions that are far worse than this

Can you share a clip of how the split sensor footage is usable? I would be really interested to see if someone has a fix for it.

 

[Russ Fill]

Any body know any more on if Red has a solution for this issue?

 

[Phil Holland]

Just a reminder, and it's a big reminder. If you are experiencing the artifact list what lenses, what adapter (if any), and brownie points if there's info on the filter or matte box involved (not part of it, but more of a morbid curiosity for me).

There are many productions filming with these cameras now and I can create the artifact even, but I have also been happily shooting "worry free".

 

[Quincy D]

We did a ton of testing outdoors backlit and could not reproduce it.... until yesterday....

Backlit, natural afternoon sunset light in a living room. The split artifact showed up when the camera panned through the light source flaring across the center of the frame.
NOTE: 99% of our shoot was artifact free - with the light off to one side it did not show up. Only present with direct harsh flare into center of lens.

Gear: Raptor (black), Zeiss Otus 55 f1.4 Duclos Mod, C7 RF to EF adapter, BT Misfit Kick Matte Box, Schneider Rohidium Filters


Images 1 & 2 - Show split with direct flare
Image 3 - Shows flare off axis with no split

 

[Quincy D]

Figured this would be helpful.....

Full image sequence showing how flare issue shows up as light hits directly on middle of sensor.

Image 1 - No split
Image 2- Split
Image 3 - Split
Image 4 - No split

 

[Charles Bergquist]

Has anyone heard news on a fix for this? Flocking / new sensor glass / anything? I haven't sent mine back into Red since there isn't a solution yet.

It'll be interesting if this happens on XL as well or of it gets controlled on XL better, similar to other large format stitch sensor designs. The V-Raptor is a pretty powerful camera, but I see XL as it's formal cinema entry so I'd imagine they'll control it by then.

If anyone hears anything or Jarred wants to chime in that'd be awesome.

Also, for Phil Holland, the Hawk V-Lites exhibit the artifact when flared from center / above. That's usually where I see it on every lens. Still using Wooden Camera PL mount.

 

[James Darren]

I tested a Raptor today and can confirm the sensor split. It's actually fairly easy to see when you pan through a light in the center of frame. I can imagine if you shoot music videos it's going to be a bit of a challenge.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

Alright, so I tempted fate by joining the "this is hard to replicate" side. Finally happened In a real shooting scenario on set. Pretty much present throughout an entire take while light flared the lens.

https://vimeo.com/673066563/45c75fcefc

Wooden Camera LPL to RF adapter and a 40mm Signature Prime


*Edit: upon further inspection, you can see the artifact anytime there's a substantial lens flare passing through center frame. James is right!

 

[Tucker Debevec]

Alright, so I tempted fate by joining the "this is hard to replicate" side. Finally happened In a real shooting scenario on set. Pretty much present throughout an entire take while light flared the lens.

https://vimeo.com/673066563/45c75fcefc

Wooden Camera LPL to RF adapter and a 40mm Signature Prime


*Edit: upon further inspection, you can see the artifact anytime there's a substantial lens flare passing through center frame. James is right!

I had to watch the video twice to see the split, but I definitely saw it. Now I can't unsee it. Ryan Chernin are you sending your camera back to RED to get it checked out?

 

[Zack Birlew]

Alright, so I tempted fate by joining the "this is hard to replicate" side. Finally happened In a real shooting scenario on set. Pretty much present throughout an entire take while light flared the lens.

https://vimeo.com/673066563/45c75fcefc

Wooden Camera LPL to RF adapter and a 40mm Signature Prime


*Edit: upon further inspection, you can see the artifact anytime there's a substantial lens flare passing through center frame. James is right!

It took me a bit to see that too and not only the split being visible but there seemed to be a dip in light like almost shading over from one side to another during the pan. I wonder if this could be a software fix depending on if the merge is software blending or direct hardware issue. Ideally, a very slight crop would be the worst case scenario if it's software based but the absolute disaster, in case there is no software stitching and it's strictly hardware, then RED will have to redesign their sensor for a revision.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

I had to watch the video twice to see the split, but I definitely saw it. Now I can't unsee it. Ryan Chernin are you sending your camera back to RED to get it checked out?

I plan to as soon as possible. Sent an online message to Red Support that night after noticing the artifact in the dailies. I've got a busy February though, so this definitely throws a small wrench in things. Not sure if I'll be able to ship it across the country as soon as I'd like to. Ah well.


Edit: after reading through the thread, looks like there isn't a fix yet anyway, so probably no reason to send it in at the moment.

 

[Ryan Chernin]

It took me a bit to see that too and not only the split being visible but there seemed to be a dip in light like almost shading over from one side to another during the pan. I wonder if this could be a software fix depending on if the merge is software blending or direct hardware issue. Ideally, a very slight crop would be the worst case scenario if it's software based but the absolute disaster, in case there is no software stitching and it's strictly hardware, then RED will have to redesign their sensor for a revision.

Agreed. Either way, it sounds like the split would be baked into any affected R3D file, right?

 

[James Darren]

*Edit: upon further inspection, you can see the artifact anytime there's a substantial lens flare passing through center frame. James is right!

I used a Raptor again today (different body to last time) and again it's definitely there. I'm assuming it's every Raptor doing this.

Last time I tested it with RF & EF lenses. This time it was Arri Ultra Prime lenses. I don't think it makes much of difference what lenses or mount you're using.

Pan through a grey/neutral colored background or wall with a light source in the frame and you'll see it. As others have said, once you see it you can't stop seeing it.

 

[Steven Schloss]

Do we think this is going to get resolved or will RED brush it under the rug? I love most things about my raptor but have seen this in a few shoots I’ve had at this point. It’s tough for me to bring this on set with this current flaw.

a local rental house refuses to carry this camera because they are aware of the sensor split artifact.

Charles I saw you are selling yours. I’m crushed… this was my first camera over 20k so was a big deal for me. I’m tempted to wait it out for another few months to see if this gets resolved before selling. Has there been any further updates from RED?

 

[Ryan Chernin]

Do we think this is going to get resolved or will RED brush it under the rug? I love most things about my raptor but have seen this in a few shoots I’ve had at this point. It’s tough for me to bring this on set with this current flaw.

a local rental house refuses to carry this camera because they are aware of the sensor split artifact.

Charles I saw you are selling yours. I’m crushed… this was my first camera over 20k so was a big deal for me. I’m tempted to wait it out for another few months to see if this gets resolved before selling. Has there been any further updates from RED?

This 100%. If the "solution" is "don't shoot flares" or "buy the XL" I'm going to lose my mind. This thing is SO damn close to perfect. Fix the split sensor and I will literally have not a single complaint. That being said, it's such a weird issue that I too am starting to consider selling the Raptor already.

​​​​​P.S. Steven, any chance you're the same Steven Schloss I knew from BU?

 

[Steven Schloss]

Dude….. yes!

I knew your name looked familiar. Small world, let’s chat offline. What’s your IG?