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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

V-Raptor Sensor Issues

hopefully a fix will be here soon:

"Jarred Land - Thx Charles. Monstro and the LF (and the 65) do indeed exhibit this artifact. Arri tells you so on their cameras , and so do we on ours. All the cameras mentioned have different flair guards so they all respond differently, but if you try hard enough you can break them all. Regardless, the cause isn't a mystery and we have a solution that dramatically reduces this as well as some other flares that we are just finishing up internal testing with."
 
As a owner of a Raptor (and Monstro).. The question of if other cameras have a split in the sensor is purely academic and not very helpful (don't get me wrong I am interested but it is not actually helpful) ...

The only question that matters is... is there a split in the image using a real lens and in a situation that may actually happen for us?

I have seen myself that this is possible... and even though it is unlikely I don't want to have to shoot around it.

I also have had solid feedback from a mate that he has seen the split with more than one RF lenses (which I can double check if needed) so the lens mount debate seems slightly obfuscating! I believe it is a internal reflection issue that is mitigated against on Monstro due to the position of the IR/UV optical stack. I think this because I have shot Monstro and Raptor in identical flare situations and Monstro is slightly more flarey SO I don't feel it can just be that Monstro has simply a better intrinsic flare guard! I have checked my Monstro with different OLPF and I can't produce the split so the fact that there is one is irrelevant!

Hopefully there is a 'flare guard' type solution. One that doesn't narrow things to the point of causing issues with other types of lenses.. Some of us remember having to 'flock' our Epics before Reds flare guard solution! If I don't hear from Red officially I will look at some Diy solutions to see how viable a flocking solution is ( I am slightly worried about messing up the edge bokah on some lenses..as Raptor is a big chip... but it is worth investigating.
 
Michael Hastings said:
Does the Canon R5 or other full frame mirrorless or DSLR cameras use split sensors on their full frame cameras?
Click to expand...

+1 on this same question Michael. Sense all this talk of split sensors and flare I have started to wonder if any DSLR's are split also. My gut tells me that most are a single sensor due to the lack of need for refresh rates like or similar to movie cameras.. And grabbing one frame at a time, even if your sensor has a few pixel issues you can mask or blend then with less of an issue. But we do see a lot of DSLR's being used for video and motion pictures...One of the reasons the Raptor and others can have such high frame rates per data is due to the split sensors I believe.
 
Did anyone tried this mount ?
https://hotrodcameras.com/hot-rod-cameras-pl-to-rf-adapter-mark-ii/



Our Mark II version includes the first ever “Rotia Black” nano textured flocking. This deep black with a nano texture is inspired by the black textured feathers of a Lawes’ Parotia and enables PL mount lenses to be used on RF mount cameras with the most minimal internal light reflections and significantly improved contrast over a more typical anodized adapter.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
As a owner of a Raptor (and Monstro).. The question of if other cameras have a split in the sensor is purely academic and not very helpful (don't get me wrong I am interested but it is not actually helpful) ...

The only question that matters is... is there a split in the image using a real lens and in a situation that may actually happen for us?

I have seen myself that this is possible... and even though it is unlikely I don't want to have to shoot around it.

I also have had solid feedback from a mate that he has seen the split with more than one RF lenses (which I can double check if needed) so the lens mount debate seems slightly obfuscating! I believe it is a internal reflection issue that is mitigated against on Monstro due to the position of the IR/UV optical stack. I think this because I have shot Monstro and Raptor in identical flare situations and Monstro is slightly more flarey SO I don't feel it can just be that Monstro has simply a better intrinsic flare guard! I have checked my Monstro with different OLPF and I can't produce the split so the fact that there is one is irrelevant!

Hopefully there is a 'flare guard' type solution. One that doesn't narrow things to the point of causing issues with other types of lenses.. Some of us remember having to 'flock' our Epics before Reds flare guard solution! If I don't hear from Red officially I will look at some Diy solutions to see how viable a flocking solution is ( I am slightly worried about messing up the edge bokah on some lenses..as Raptor is a big chip... but it is worth investigating.
Click to expand...

Can't believe the split sensor happens with native RF lenses. I was about to pull the trigger on Raptor but this is a deal breaker. It's so annoying but the camera doesn't seem reliable at this stage.
 
Mattia Palombi said:
Can't believe the split sensor happens with native RF lenses. I was about to pull the trigger on Raptor but this is a deal breaker. It's so annoying but the camera doesn't seem reliable at this stage.
Click to expand...

Don't over think it.. it is very hard to create (lots of peoples only experience with this defect is with no lens on the camera at all - which is not relevant) and even though I have a reliable friend who has produced with RF lenses I have not personally so I don't know how likely it is... I will look this week with RF lens or 2 if I get the time.
 
Mattia Palombi said:
Can't believe the split sensor happens with native RF lenses. I was about to pull the trigger on Raptor but this is a deal breaker. It's so annoying but the camera doesn't seem reliable at this stage.
Click to expand...

Pull the trigger. As others have mentioned, it's pretty hard to replicate in normal shooting conditions.

​You won't regret it. This camera is pretty hard to beat.
​​​​

Edit: hahahaha karma sucks. I got the artifact in a normal shooting scenario. Still amazing image, but a little easier to replicate than I implied!
 
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Just finished shooting 3 weeks with the Raptor. Filming wildlife with a movi pro and ultra primes. Shooting into the sun 90% of the time. Never saw this or any other artefact. The lack of sensor related flare around the sun is pretty impressive IMO. Best I’ve seen so far from any camera.
 
Mattia Palombi said:
Can't believe the split sensor happens with native RF lenses. I was about to pull the trigger on Raptor but this is a deal breaker. It's so annoying but the camera doesn't seem reliable at this stage.
Click to expand...

Ill Echo the other heres Mattia, this issue is not happening as much as your mind might think it would. The camera is amazing and as stated before most of this issue that has been able to be reproduced with any consistency has been with a lens not on the camera or open lens port so tell me how many time you think you might shoot something that way... And most who are able to reproduce the issue with a lens is usually in a very narrow window of the event happening. Id bet that you or most of the V Raptor owners will never see this issue. And those who do will try to reproduce but won't be able to... at least consistently enough to be a consideration.

That said it will be very welcome when RED gives some guidelines as to how to minimize or eliminate this issue or some firmware or hardware fixes to even reduced the chance of this happening even more.
 
Just finished a big music video gig with all kind of tricky lighting situations, high contrast , moving lights, lens flairs , hard lights into the lens and so on ... camera was moving all the time!

No problems at all for a single frame..... for sure I tested the V-Raptor before a lot and without a lens and without the mount adapter attached, I could replicated the "sensor problem", but its quite "hard" to achieve it in a lot of shooting scenarios ......

Anyway, just some real life experience and I think nobody has to be that afraid to use this wonderful camera. For sure RED has to fix it, but I am sure they will !!!

And for the record I used mainly so far Sigma Cinema glass with the Canon EF - RF adaptor ....
 
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I do agree with y’all that say it’s rare, because it is. It is much less rare in comparison to Monstro and MiniLF with any lens / mount combo. It’s up to each individual for their own production’s risk tolerance. That said, Red is most likely working on a fix and until then everyone should proceed with caution. It’s not the end of the world but it is something to be concerned about, in my opinion.
 
I actually haven’t sent mine in yet due to work and now holidays. Also, I’m not sure if there’s a fix so it would just sit at the bench I’d assume.
 
I just shot a few days down in St. Thomas in conditions that should trigger the glitch. I even tried to get it to show and after taking time to go through the footage I didn't not have the problem.
I was shooting strictly RF.
 
REDZDAV.jpg

Product Management
December 08, 2021 14:01

RED takes all customer feedback seriously and is looking into sample images that have recently been shared online. The few images we have seen until now appear to have an artifact during a very rare combination of scene lighting and lens setting that has not been visible with most customers or shooting conditions.

An internal assessment has confirmed that the sensor is functioning as designed and performs above expectations with image quality. The artifact that was shared online has instead been verified to arise from internal reflections during uncommon shooting conditions. The team is now working on a solution for those select customers and will come back with more updates as soon as possible.
 
Vicky Marie Marks said:
REDZDAV.jpg

Product Management
December 08, 2021 14:01

RED takes all customer feedback seriously and is looking into sample images that have recently been shared online. The few images we have seen until now appear to have an artifact during a very rare combination of scene lighting and lens setting that has not been visible with most customers or shooting conditions.

An internal assessment has confirmed that the sensor is functioning as designed and performs above expectations with image quality. The artifact that was shared online has instead been verified to arise from internal reflections during uncommon shooting conditions. The team is now working on a solution for those select customers and will come back with more updates as soon as possible.
Click to expand...


Interesting, I’d imagine they would work on a solution for all customers. I’m trying to stay as balanced as possible with this whole situation, but it is happening with lenses under flared situations regardless of mount. I understand some people wont see it on a lot of stuff, but one day you might, it could be a bad take or it could be something important. Unfortunate to see this position, very “you’re holding it wrong.” - Steve Jobs with the antenna problem.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Interesting, I’d imagine they would work on a solution for all customers. I’m trying to stay as balanced as possible with this whole situation, but it is happening with lenses under flared situations regardless of mount. I understand some people wont see it on a lot of stuff, but one day you might, it could be a bad take or it could be something important. Unfortunate to see this position, very “you’re holding it wrong.” - Steve Jobs with the antenna problem.
Click to expand...

Is your sensor being fixed at the moment?
 
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