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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

V-Raptor Sensor Issues

Kemalettin Sert said:
Who told you that?
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What? Oh no one told me that, that's why I was asking... Cause previous STs (DSMC2s) came out quite a bit earlier than production models, and Komodo special-colours were baked in Jarred's garage and put together remotely by hand during the early pandemic, so I was asking if maybe the ST Raptors were constructed differently than the production ones (and if so, it might be a variable worth checking when it comes to this split sensor issue).
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I don't think RED needs to put this in the user manual but if someone gets this split artecact, it should contact his bomb squad. I wonder if pressure on the sensor (due to wrong cleaning) could make it happen?
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pretty sure not as the Optical stack (IR/UV mirror/block still sits away from the sensor...So the cleaning isn't really putting pressure on the sensor?

the stack is closer than the monstro but not all the way back... Never seen this issue with my Monstro!
 
Agree, I exposed our Monstro in all kinds of evil ways... never ever seen this sensor split thing in the imagery. Anyone have monstro footy with the artifact showing?

One can only guess until Red provides a more accurate explanation. Raptor is said to have a "cleaner" light path, less gate flare glaring etc. possibly those advantages also comes with the drawback of having the left right silicones exposed slightly different / less glass infront of the array could possibly cause the difference to show more prominently. But it could just as well be on the back end. Monstro is bigger / bulkier and when making a smaller camera possibly the calibration for the two sensor bits is less accurate or such. But thats just me guessing.

However it seams like the problem is a bit bigger / more frequent than what people are comfortable with and yes it sucks to have such flaws in a camera as clients will go nuts even though for the most part it´s likely not too difficult to even it out in post. Still all such corrections comes with a cost, grumpy clients is one of them.

I used to havea Mitchell S35 back in the days, instead of a normal spinning mirror like most film cameras have, it has a "butterfly" shaped mirror which means that frame 1 and frame 2 actually closed with a different shutter mirror.. The smallest missalignment there could in some light scenarios cause a small flicker on every second frame in the upper left corner of the image... That camera was seated on our milo moco normally shoting very costly productions... All I can say, I had nightmares after pretty much every shoot with that camera as that shit was only visible when getting into telecine. That flaws was the main reason I actually got an epic as it was so draining to work with those unknown errors. This raptor split sensor thing sadly seam to be something similar. :(
 
Hi everybody....... just my exsperiance so far with the V-Raptor: I pushed those images in RED Cine and tried different focal length, ( Sigma Cine and LEICA R Lenses with the Canon RF-EF Mount and some shoots without any lens) could not see anything so far. (Black Raptor by the way)
 

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Tobi Rupp said:
Hi everybody....... just my exsperiance so far with the V-Raptor: I pushed those images in RED Cine and tried different focal length, ( Sigma Cine and LEICA R Lenses with the Canon RF-EF Mount and some shoots without any lens) could not see anything so far. (Black Raptor by the way)
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:encouragement:

All that fuss about a faulty camera body? Get the repair and move on.
 
The way it is explained in the YM article it isn't two discrete physical sensors put together. It is that they "print" two images of smaller sensors onto the silicon wafer. So it is true that they can get fewer sensors on the wafer and there is the greater chance of defects since both sides still need to be perfect.

It doesn't seem that they do it for some cost savings reason - presumably they could just "print" the larger sensor - so it suggests to me that it is done because they can get the data out faster by splitting to two or three Independent streams vs the single stream from the larger sensor. I.E. they could double the size of the sensor "printing" to make a single sensor but they couldn't double or increase the speed of transfer enough to get it done in the time between frames.

PS Although the transfer issue doesn't make total sense since presumably the 8K Helium sensor isn't split and it transfers the same number of pixels - although that could be why Helium would have lower high frame rate capability - i.e. you have to split the sensor if you want the large size AND high frame rates at data transfer rates the current chip technology can produce.
 
Tobi Rupp said:
could not see anything so far.
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From your images you are not testing the scenario which causes the glitch. a light source in the center is illuminating both halves fairly equally, it seems to be a small hot point source on one side, in an otherwise dim/dark scene can cause the glitch in my tests - its not just a line, its an imbalance of exposure at the seam line between the two halves.

I can not force the same glitch on either monstro/skintone olpf or alexa mini LF in the same scenario, same lens.

raptor has the ir/color + lowpass all glued on, I'd guess this new glass stack, possibly combined with the different flange distance is the problem - as otherwise monstro is same physical sensor dimensions and should produce the same problem in the same situation.
 
...update on my end, my V-Raptor is being called back in by Red to investigate the sensor issue. Tech support has been very quick to respond to everything so far. However, no loaner camera like Arri / Canon does when there's malfunction. This could be good news in that maybe they just sent me a camera with a faulty sensor. Just reminding others that have a V-Raptor, the best way to test to see if you have this issue is roll a clip indoors with no lens cap on with the RF ( base ) mount. Aim it towards some lights in your home and see if you see a glitch / split in your sensor.
 
For anyone who hasn't dug into the article and played this clip, it is much more revealing than the stills being posted here. The seam is much more visible when the subject is moving across the centre of frame. Surely a subject being backlit by the sun is a "normal shooting condition". Super unfortunate situation
 
Vicky Marie Marks said:
Red changed their minds? I thought they told you its expected behavior when there is no lens on to see the line.
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Yes and no, I think they state that all cameras still do this, which other cameras ( LF / Venice ) and even their Monstro doesn't. I think they're brining mine in to see if it really is a faulty sensor or if this is normal. Regardless of if they send me a new camera and I can't get it to happen, I'll post it it unbiased.

There is definitely a lot of Red bias wherever I post it, and just so everyone knows I've owned 6 Red cameras including a Monstro. I just think anyone that's using this camera on a professional level should know if they put something like a Tribe 7 Blackwing on and shoot some flares for a music video it's very likely to show the sensor corruption.

The V-Raptor itself is an incredible camera so I'm really hoping there's just a few of these sensors in the wild including mine that didn't get calibrated properly. Otherwise, they should have told customers prior to releasing it.
 
Josef Gatti said:
For anyone who hasn't dug into the article and played this clip, it is much more revealing than the stills being posted here. The seam is much more visible when the subject is moving across the centre of frame. Surely a subject being backlit by the sun is a "normal shooting condition". Super unfortunate situation
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This is a pretty typical clip that most if not all of us have shot on many occasion.
Im hoping this will get resolved. And also hopefully before they drop the XL version.
 
Has anyone tried reproducing the glitch in 2K or "8mm" mode? Since the seam is perfectly in the middle, maybe it will be more pronounced in cropped modes..
 
Audy Erel said:
Has anyone tried reproducing the glitch in 2K or "8mm" mode? Since the seam is perfectly in the middle, maybe it will be more pronounced in cropped modes..
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its the same as cropping the image after capture so likely it would look just like it.
 
Have we confirmed if it is happening specifically with ST models or are the black models experiencing it as well? I have a black model and havent seen any issues so far.
 
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