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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

V-Raptor Sensor Issues

Ryan Chernin said:
Hmm. Those look more noticeable than the sensor split to my eye.
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Yes, there are much more qualified testers if the flare guard that myself, it’d be great to have someone else test and post findings.
 
Ryan Chernin said:
Hmm. Those look more noticeable than the sensor split to my eye.
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No. This is an optical light thing, which even can be used for an aesthetic creative look when flaring. The seam is a NG take or VFX fix. Gate Flare can be a VFX fix via punching in or whatever, but generally when flaring and going for it even on film, it's just left in.

Gare Flare, on all cameras, varies a great deal. Lenses, Mounts, Mount Adapters, Flange Focal Distance, Relative distance of the Exit Pupil, etc. The camera's internal optical path also plays a roll in Flare Character and influencing the Gate Flare.

In my tests I've mainly compared apples to apples when it comes to this, like PL to PL on each camera and so forth.

I haven't sent my V-Raptor in for the Flare Guard, but I should likely find a moment to A/B things properly to see all of the differences.
 
Phil Holland said:
I haven't sent my V-Raptor in for the Flare Guard, but I should likely find a moment to A/B things properly to see all of the differences.
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Looking forward to that! Debating if I should do it on my Raptor.
 
I haven’t seen any footage in the wild, but I would expect that it is similar to what we’ve seen in Monstro. So, yes. But I’ve got to say, after shooting a bit on the Raptor - including a feature with a ton of flare work - this split issue has been blown way out of proportion. It will certainly effect some users, but it’s far closer to a non-issue than it is otherwise. At least with my experience.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
This is with the RF to EF mount with a Canon 135 F2 @ F2, same set up I used for the first test that showed the sensor stitch. Overall, I will say that the sensor stitch, to my eye, is gone. They've eliminated it with this Flare Guard.

At this point, I can't tell if this is the Flare Guard, the EF Mount or what, I'm just not sure.

Red has made a solid effort in mitigating the issue and they turned around my camera quickly. ( After waiting a while for the Flare Guard to be fabricated. ) There's also a lot of V-Raptor customers that have never seen it and cannot get it to happen, so I don't know what's happening there either.

My whole take away from this whole situation. Red should have used their mount system and flange distance from the DSMC2 line. They're going with it on the Raptor XL and I have faith in that system. I think they need to control the optical path on their cameras or at least be very strict on testing of other mounts.

I think the RF for adaptability was a good call, from from an optics standpoint with adapters all being different, it wasn't the right choice.
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Hello Charles, how is the flare guard going for you in real work scenarios? did the stitch artifact pop-up again? falre guard artifact manageable? thanks
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Wich means nothing?
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The Monstro definitely displays the split sensor flare artifact when hit with light at certain angles. I've had it happen a couple of times on set, but I've also seen it in movies like Ambulance. I'm sure we will see more reported on this as the XL gets into more hands.

The more time I spend with the Raptor the less I'm concerned about this issue. It definitely exists, but I very, VERY rarely see it unless I'm trying to create it. Everyone has their own style and some users may be more effected than I am, but every day I use the Raptor, the more I'm impressed with what RED has done here. I wish I could share some of the heavy flare work I've done with this camera, but that will have to wait unfortunately.
 
I would love for someone experienced to comment on this particular implementation of a flare guard…? I haven’t had time to install and test.. I only have one camera so A/B is not possible for me …also I have lost a bit of confidence Raptor ST is expensive enough to warrant the proper and correct fix… :-(

re XL I also expect and hope it to become like a Monstro (which is problem free re split).. I also noticed when I picked up a ST with a kippertie ND mount that the problem was much reduced.. unfortunately I am so far into LPL and lenses with rear projections that this is not possible for me..

Ps I do also think the Raptor ST is less prone than suggested but it is not a non-issue… I personally don’t really use it and stay with Monstro and also if someone wants to hire the raptor I show the artefact happening so I have a clear conscience…
 
I've posted in this thread the best I can summarize about this phenomenon. The variables at play are the lenses, the mounts, and how you shoot. I can evoke this on Monstro, though hard, as well as the Arri Mini LF as well as V-Raptor. You can also literally never see it. I also didn't send my camera in for the shroud.

Coming up on a year shooting with V-Raptor shortly. Been using it on fairly large shoots too. It's been sort of a non-issue, but it's something to be aware of and take care about. But I've also very much got to the bottom of it.

Didn't really see it on XL either. But I'm sure I can force it out of it.
 
So I had my first shooting experience with Raptor. (Monstro is still our main workhorse)

I wanted to check the sensor split issue, so I slightly removed the body cap. There it was. A massive line in the middle of the frame. I was shocked and quickly grabbed our Monstro wit PL mount to reproduce the same line. But there was no line visible. I was pretty sure the PL mount kept it from the split issue, so I removed it from the camera. And there it was..

I came to the conclusion that this would definitely be the cause of the lower flange distance on Raptor.

Unfortunately it happened on set with lenses attached..
Our light setup was low key. Product shots with light hits. Never had a single issue with our Monstro! But most of the shots with Raptor are unusable ..

I am very disappointed with Raptor, as I really wanted to „upgrade“ to XL.

Keeping my fingers crossed!
 
Daniel Bichler said:
So I had my first shooting experience with Raptor. (Monstro is still our main workhorse)

I wanted to check the sensor split issue, so I slightly removed the body cap. There it was. A massive line in the middle of the frame. I was shocked and quickly grabbed our Monstro wit PL mount to reproduce the same line. But there was no line visible. I was pretty sure the PL mount kept it from the split issue, so I removed it from the camera. And there it was..

I came to the conclusion that this would definitely be the cause of the lower flange distance on Raptor.

Unfortunately it happened on set with lenses attached..
Our light setup was low key. Product shots with light hits. Never had a single issue with our Monstro! But most of the shots with Raptor are unusable ..

I am very disappointed with Raptor, as I really wanted to „upgrade“ to XL.

Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Out of curiosity, what lens and mount was used on raptor when you had the issue?

Wide lenses with short flange and or that protrude deep into the sensor cavity I assume is most likely to create the issue. Such lenses are usually not really good for digital sensors but yes odd that there is such big difference with monstro. I never ever seen it on monstro and we used it several thousand hours.
 
We've got the same sensor issues with the KipperTie Strata PL-ND Mount and the flare guard. Very sad that the old Monstro sensor is more reliable than this one.
 
Remington Chase said:
Is there any hope for this to be solved?
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I am losing hope…

IMHO What should be the most devastatingly overachieving camera around is underachieving because of the industry wide ‘doubt’ around this which resonates perfectly with pernicious Red doubt in general … (the lack of a VF isn’t helping either)

I am hoping Kipperties LPL mount might mitigate the issue enough for me.., fingers crossed

anyways it makes me appreciate he Monstro (love it) more as we wait for the next chip! Is suspect it may not come from Red if they don’t think this is a important issue..

ps I have a beautifully configured raptor package we don’t really use due to this issue.. a camera that is out of warrantee and nearly never used! I have early adopted on nearly every Red camera from the 1st Red One … over 10 camera!
 
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