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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

V-Raptor Sensor Issues

Charles Bergquist said:
My response from Red has been that it’s “normal” but I can send it in. Which I’ve been hesitant to do, it’ll just sit in purgatory. It’s most likely going to be a sale for me at this point. DITs roll their eyes to the back of their head when they hear Raptor and I tend to agree at this point with Red’s non-response.
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This is what pissed me off the last time I dealt with RED CS. They claimed camera was performing normally, and even after sending it, they didn't fix it. Became a painstakingly long drawn out situation with no resolve. Frustrating for sure. I just wish RED would admit the issue and not say - it's fine deal with it.
 
Severin Strauss said:
Anyone had the sensor split on the alexa mini lf? I got it on a recent shoot. Had the Canon K35 35mm on a Pl mount
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I've only been able to make it split with the LPL mount removed, no other way. Interesting you saw this on the Alexa Mini LF, this is the first time someone has posted an image. I haven't been able to make it happen in mine, but my Raptor all the time. Do you mind posting the ARRIRAW frame or a frame with metadata.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
I've only been able to make it split with the LPL mount removed, no other way. Interesting you saw this on the Alexa Mini LF, this is the first time someone has posted an image. I haven't been able to make it happen in mine, but my Raptor all the time. Do you mind posting the ARRIRAW frame or a frame with metadata.
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Hey Charles, I try to provide a link the next days. I'm currently on another shoot.
It is very hard to see on the mini lf, I haven't even seen it on the monitor while shooting. I noticed it when I put a powergrade in davinci, maybe the grade was to harsh on the footage, then it is obviously my own fault.
It will, more or less, disappear when I pull down the contrast. But you can force it to see where the split begins.
Btw I shot in apple prores 4444.
The split is only in two clips which are against an arri orbiter, didn't appear against other hard lighting situations.
 
Ryan Chernin said:
if the only solution to the artifact is “buy the XL” and if Red continues to be silent,
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Seems more people realize what I've been saying over and over. Elvis has left the building. Red isn't really on this forum anymore, it's all about influencer style marketing and giving celebrity filmmakers their Red so it can be posted on social media. Then when everyone preordered cameras to cover Red's one or two years of production they move onto the next "big thing".

Komodo still has issues that need to be addressed and there's zero communication on this forum about those issues ever being worked on. So the most probable thing is that they just try to fix things for their next system instead and then they can market those cameras without those issues, drowning the criticism in the new hype.

Things are never going to get out of beta and everyone is a beta tester. We pay for half-baked products and then get criticized by apologists or Red themselves when we bring forward any type of criticism about the cameras. I don't know what happened to Red, why this is the new standard of operation, but it feels like they went from being one of the better companies in the film industry to one of the more unreliable ones overnight.

And with other cameras catching up, it becomes less possible to sell hype through features. Red needs to get back on track with the community, they forgot that the community was part of what made Red what it is.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
I mean Zack Snyder shooting his next movie on V-Raptor you think he would ask the DITs for their choice of the camera?
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Its the DIT´s task / responsibility to QC all the material captured and report to DP and Producers... If using one or a few cameras that renders a center split glitch now and then simply is something no DIT are able to cover before wrapping each setup. So the problem will show up in dailies and post and producers will definitely take note as the additional cost to sort such split screen errors can be quite large even in Hollywood terms, there is simply no simple fix for it.

For that reason even for a Hollywood guy like Zack I would say it would be better to use monstros as main cams and only use the raptors for extra high frame rate stuff. Even if he does a lot of handheld, the weight difference on monstro and raptor is minimal in a Hollywood environment with all the bells and whistles they put on the cameras.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Its the DIT´s task / responsibility to QC all the material captured and report to DP and Producers... If using one or a few cameras that renders a center split glitch now and then simply is something no DIT are able to cover before wrapping each setup. So the problem will show up in dailies and post and producers will definitely take note as the additional cost to sort such split screen errors can be quite large even in Hollywood terms, there is simply no simple fix for it.

For that reason even for a Hollywood guy like Zack I would say it would be better to use monstros as main cams and only use the raptors for extra high frame rate stuff. Even if he does a lot of handheld, the weight difference on monstro and raptor is minimal in a Hollywood environment with all the bells and whistles they put on the cameras.
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Unless Zak Snyder is using a modified Raptor that's already been fixed, or a prototype of the Raptor XL, that also has this fixed - my guess is the later.
 
Björn Benckert said:
For that reason even for a Hollywood guy like Zack I would say it would be better to use monstros as main cams and only use the raptors for extra high frame rate stuff.
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I doubt that would happen. He'll most likely want to use the latest and greatest model (being Raptor) given his relationship with Red. There's also a marketing consideration.
 
Greetings from another corner of the internet.

First some responses to some of the discourse above. The V-Raptors that are out on features right now don't have any fix that I know off. Seen a few bodies on a very specific Marvel film and they are much like mine. They've also been rolling for a while now. But as I've mentioned there's lots of ways of not making this happen.

In terms of silence on this front, RED hasn't exactly been, but likely to to many it can feel that way. They did make this official post at the end of 2021:
https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/articles/4412279558291-V-RAPTOR-Flare-Artifact

That states they were working on testing a solution and implementing it. I can say safely by my own testing regarding this particular artifact, and this stretches across not just RED cameras, that it likely is taking both time and experimentation to come up with the appropriate design that can be mass produced and reasonably installed on the body-side.

Elvis has not left the building. People at RED are still very much reading REDuser. Posting on the other hand, you'll likely only see them post when absolutely necessary of it s a quick bite. That's more of my theory on such things due to a variety of factors. This very much remains a RED focused discussion board, though we've certainly opened up the discussion much more broadly to other cameras in Jim's absence. Generally if there was other camera discussion DVXuser was the board for that. But this forum grew as did the industry and discussion.

The two best places to discuss RED related things are here at REDuser.net and the Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/reduser/

There are many RED related groups on Facebook, but these are the only two official groups. I'd say the OG RED Camera group is pretty good too, but it's HUGE and largely used as a marketplace. Not a bad thing, but the REDuser Group isn't exactly that sort of thing. It's actually fairly refreshing how on point things are as well as the general conduct of individuals.

Now something you'll care about.

Jarred posted this little update in a back in forth online earlier today:

Jarred Land said:
Yup we are just wrapping up final testing… basically a new shroud inside the sensor chamber. It’s a good balance between both reducing extreme side flares to show a split and eliminating gate shadow.

If you never have seen the split on the stitched sensors we have making for the last 10 years then you probably can pass on sending the camera in as it’s a very rare thing that happens to raptor Monstro or Dragon VV and other cameras like the ARRI LF as adding this will make gate shadow more possible by the nature of , well, shading the sensor.
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This fix is in the direction I was hoping they'd take and will exist within the body. My "bush solves" involved making changes within a specific mount via light trap and flocking. Doing it in camera is a better solution IMO and will work for "everything" you throw at it.

It'll be nice to see how much of a difference this will make. Right now due to the variety of variables at play it's been pretty prone for some people. I've at this point seen other V-Raptors where people haven't seen the artifact, there's no magic, it can still occur on those bodies upon testing. But again, as mentioned, this isn't an issue for some people as their mount, lenses, and even filming techniques don't lead to the same result.
 
Phil Holland said:
Greetings from another corner of the internet.

First some responses to some of the discourse above. The V-Raptors that are out on features right now don't have any fix that I know off. Seen a few bodies on a very specific Marvel film and they are much like mine. They've also been rolling for a while now. But as I've mentioned there's lots of ways of not making this happen.

In terms of silence on this front, RED hasn't exactly been, but likely to to many it can feel that way. They did make this official post at the end of 2021:
https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/art...Flare-Artifact

That states they were working on testing a solution and implementing it. I can say safely by my own testing regarding this particular artifact, and this stretches across not just RED cameras, that it likely is taking both time and experimentation to come up with the appropriate design that can be mass produced and reasonably installed on the body-side.

Elvis has not left the building. People at RED are still very much reading REDuser. Posting on the other hand, you'll likely only see them post when absolutely necessary of it s a quick bite. That's more of my theory on such things due to a variety of factors. This very much remains a RED focused discussion board, though we've certainly opened up the discussion much more broadly to other cameras in Jim's absence. Generally if there was other camera discussion DVXuser was the board for that. But this forum grew as did the industry and discussion.

The two best places to discuss RED related things are here at REDuser.net and the Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/reduser/

There are many RED related groups on Facebook, but these are the only two official groups. I'd say the OG RED Camera group is pretty good too, but it's HUGE and largely used as a marketplace. Not a bad thing, but the REDuser Group isn't exactly that sort of thing. It's actually fairly refreshing how on point things are as well as the general conduct of individuals.

Now something you'll care about.

Jarred posted this little update in a back in forth online earlier today:



This fix is in the direction I was hoping they'd take and will exist within the body. My "bush solves" involved making changes within a specific mount via light trap and flocking. Doing it in camera is a better solution IMO and will work for "everything" you throw at it.

It'll be nice to see how much of a difference this will make. Right now due to the variety of variables at play it's been pretty prone for some people. I've at this point seen other V-Raptors where people haven't seen the artifact, there's no magic, it can still occur on those bodies upon testing. But again, as mentioned, this isn't an issue for some people as their mount, lenses, and even filming techniques don't lead to the same result.
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Hey Phil, just so I understand what Jarred is saying. This new shroud - when testing is done - will come pre-built into upcoming Raptors, yes? And it appears folks will - perhaps - be able to send in their current Raptors to get this added?

I also think it's notable that Jarred posted this online (on FB?), and not here on RU.
 
Phil Holland said:
Greetings from another corner of the internet.

First some responses to some of the discourse above. The V-Raptors that are out on features right now don't have any fix that I know off. Seen a few bodies on a very specific Marvel film and they are much like mine. They've also been rolling for a while now. But as I've mentioned there's lots of ways of not making this happen.

In terms of silence on this front, RED hasn't exactly been, but likely to to many it can feel that way. They did make this official post at the end of 2021:
https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/articles/4412279558291-V-RAPTOR-Flare-Artifact

That states they were working on testing a solution and implementing it. I can say safely by my own testing regarding this particular artifact, and this stretches across not just RED cameras, that it likely is taking both time and experimentation to come up with the appropriate design that can be mass produced and reasonably installed on the body-side.

Elvis has not left the building. People at RED are still very much reading REDuser. Posting on the other hand, you'll likely only see them post when absolutely necessary of it s a quick bite. That's more of my theory on such things due to a variety of factors. This very much remains a RED focused discussion board, though we've certainly opened up the discussion much more broadly to other cameras in Jim's absence. Generally if there was other camera discussion DVXuser was the board for that. But this forum grew as did the industry and discussion.

The two best places to discuss RED related things are here at REDuser.net and the Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/reduser/

There are many RED related groups on Facebook, but these are the only two official groups. I'd say the OG RED Camera group is pretty good too, but it's HUGE and largely used as a marketplace. Not a bad thing, but the REDuser Group isn't exactly that sort of thing. It's actually fairly refreshing how on point things are as well as the general conduct of individuals.

Now something you'll care about.

Jarred posted this little update in a back in forth online earlier today:



This fix is in the direction I was hoping they'd take and will exist within the body. My "bush solves" involved making changes within a specific mount via light trap and flocking. Doing it in camera is a better solution IMO and will work for "everything" you throw at it.

It'll be nice to see how much of a difference this will make. Right now due to the variety of variables at play it's been pretty prone for some people. I've at this point seen other V-Raptors where people haven't seen the artifact, there's no magic, it can still occur on those bodies upon testing. But again, as mentioned, this isn't an issue for some people as their mount, lenses, and even filming techniques don't lead to the same result.
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Thanks for all of that dude!
 
Nick Morrison said:
Hey Phil, just so I understand what Jarred is saying. This new shroud - when testing is done - will come pre-built into upcoming Raptors, yes? And it appears folks will - perhaps - be able to send in their current Raptors to get this added?

I also think it's notable that Jarred posted this online (on FB?), and not here on RU.
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This was a back and forth discussion thread, just sharing here what was brought up as his reply is relevant here. I'm certain once everything is bolted down we'll get all the details posted in many places and not just a reply in a thread. Wouldn't exactly read into the tea leaves too much as to where this was posted as that means pretty much nothing.
 
Is it a gasket/shroud (like the one removed with the interchangeable OLPF mod of DSMC) that goes from the back of the mount to the sensor glass?

I presume/hope the gate shadow won’t be any worse than previous RED cameras? If so, while a little jarring, it’s still way more natural/less “broken image” looking than the sensor split (as the split looks like a malfunction).
 
I wonder when and how long this will take to implement and if they will share images of pre and post "light trap". It's been MONTHS for some sort of response from Red. The acknowledged it in the Red Support area as Phil mentioned, but that was also much after the sensor issues were popping up quite a bit.

I do think that with the proper design it's possible to make it almost invisible, this is why the Monstro VV and Mini LF / LF don't show it when a lens and mount is on. I think they were engineered to mitigate that, or with the flange distance on those cameras it was happenstance. The RF mount is adaptable, but I think was the wrong call for a camera with a stitched sensor. The XL will probably not have this issue.

That said, my V-Raptor is for sale in the Marketplace if anyone is interested.
 
Phil Holland said:
This was a back and forth discussion thread, just sharing here what was brought up as his reply is relevant here. I'm certain once everything is bolted down we'll get all the details posted in many places and not just a reply in a thread. Wouldn't exactly read into the tea leaves too much as to where this was posted as that means pretty much nothing.
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Fair enough, and thanks for sharing here Phil. I'm not on FB or Insta anymore, so these threads are helpful. Cheers
 
Thank you for stepping in Phil. According to you there are lots of ways for not make the split happen. Probably you are right but I don't think that adjusting your filming technique to avoid the glitch would be an option for many Cinematographers. Certainly is not for me.

What I found really interesting is that Jared said that RED sensor have been stitched for the past 10 years. I had no clue. I've used extensively every single Red since the RED ONE and never ever happen to see the split. If Red has been stitching sensor in the past that makes me think there's something seriously off with the Raptor body and not the sensor.

I truly hope this issue gets addressed and resolved before the release of the new camera models such as Raptor XL and future dsmc3. Otherwise I’m afraid this will be forgotten and Cinematographers just have to shoot around it, which again it’s really heartbreaking.
 
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