Update......

[Ketch Rossi]

Just curious: how are Sony, Nikon and Canon able to offer Full Frame sensor for such low prices? Something to do with sensor complexity?

Can't really compare Acquisition/Manufacturing costs for "Ten Thousand" vs. "Hundred Thousands", prices shift very dramatically with such volumes.

And yes if you are referring to the 8K sensor, it's obviously also about the Complexity of an 8K sensor vs a FF/2:1 4K sensor as Jarred stated.

But here it seems then more then just "Volumes" it is the actual "Bad Apples" that need been thrown away that increase costs in the 8K Sensor processing do to it's complexity.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

The mechanicals don't affect the possibility of an upgrade to 8k. It is the difference of the boards inside. The Carbon vs the Magnesium have different internals, and the MG boards are not capable of handling the 8K sensor. So if you wanted to upgrade from a magnesium to an 8k you would need to first upgrade all your (very expensive) internal boards, and then the sensor, and by that time you are paying much much more money than if you just did it the carbon way first.

Okay -finally! And please, please do not interpret this as getting uppity or snarky or rude or anything like that...this is the exact answer I've been trying to figure out for some time now. What I read from posts at NAB last year was upgrade Dragons to MG and there will be a path to 8K at some point in the future, not yet been defined. However, this does provide a clue, so thank you.

Now we must determine how we can go to Carbon or Forged based on our existing pre-orders for the MG. So while the offer in savings are fantastic and greatly appreciated I wonder if there's a way to go to aluminum Weapon and use that savings toward going to Carbon or Forged. Could someone enlighten us please? Thank you.

 

[Michael Dalton]

Can't really compare Acquisition/Manufacturing costs for "Ten Thousand" vs. "Hundred Thousands", prices shift very dramatically with such volumes.

And yes if you are referring to the 8K sensor, it's obviously also about the Complexity of an 8K sensor vs a FF/2:1 4K sensor as Jarred stated.

But here it seems then more then just "Volumes" it is the actual "Bad Apples" that need been thrown away that increase costs in the 8K Sensor processing do to it's complexity.

I suspect it has a lot more to do about being that it needs to capture high frame rates while maintaining image quality and dynamic range. A full frame sensor that down converts to HD or even 4k does not go under the same scrutiny.

 

[Alain M]

I feel you Jarred! But since a few people are in the Scarlet D gap, and I wanted to buy the Scarlet D now after owning the Scarlet MX, I mean, to know if I pay 14.5 K on a Brain now I will have a chance on a new upgrade of the Scarlet Weapon little boy you mentioned a few weeks back?

I wanna have Dragon! Now, then upgrade no problem. But I do want to know I have upgrade option and fill that $ 14.5 k Gap with a $ 6k raven weapon body with the new Scarlet coming soon since I can't wait until march without a dragon.

 

[jordan levy]

I feel you Jarred! But since a few people are in the Scarlet D gap, and I wanted to buy the Scarlet D now after owning the Scarlet MX, I mean, to know if I pay 14.5 K on a Brain now I will have a chance on a new upgrade of the Scarlet Weapon little boy you mentioned a few weeks back?

I wanna have Dragon! Now, then upgrade no problem. But I do want to know I have upgrade option and fill that $ 14.5 k Gap with a $ 6k raven weapon body with the new Scarlet coming soon since I can't wait until march without a dragon.

im pretty sure he said the scarlet path wouldnt be announced until NAB, which is april, so im assuming not available until at least summer 2016. i think they have their hands full with getting out the weapon and the raven right now.

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

Hmm, 3-5k cheaper Magnesium is a super deal. But how about letting it run a 4:3 S35 area with a slightly higher sensor? That would be a real great upgrade from Epic, and still far away from the 8k VV.

*anamorphic love

 

[Matt stambaugh]

I'm currently on the Epic MX and love the camera, but at the same point would personally love to have a Dragon Sensor. We will see how things go, but my current thought is to sell the Epic MX and pick up a used Epic Dragon. Or I can keep the Epic MX for now and get a Red Raven kit, which doesn't sound like a bad idea and then have a b-cam relatively cheap. I already have mini-mags so that's a plus.

 

[Antony Newman]

If Canon sell 1 million camera - $100 Million R & D costs only adds $100 per customer.
If you sell 100 times less cameras, you need to proportionally charge each person more.

Yielding : Each circular wafer after has square sensors cut out of it.
The larger the sensor, the more waste (incomplete) material - and fewer complete sensors.
If there are defects on the surface - there comes a point where almost every sensor might have a defect.
Making the sensor Smaller increases the chance that each sensor does not have a defect.

Increasing the sensor area from 6k to 8k may reduce yield rate far more than the proportional increase in surface area.

AJ

Just curious: how are Sony, Nikon and Canon able to offer Full Frame sensor for such low prices? Something to do with sensor complexity?

 

[Phil Holland]

After reading a few posts, I think it's good to write a small summary of cameras and shipping times.

RED DSMC[SUP]2[/SUP] Camera Lineup and Shipping:

- RED Weapon 6K Forged Carbon Fiber - Shipping now (July 2015)
- RED Weapon 6K Woven Carbon Fiber - Shipping now (October 2015)
- RED Weapon 6K Magnesium - Shipping after or around completion of most Carbon Fiber Upgrades (source)
- RED Weapon 8K Forged and Woven Carbon Fiber - Shipping in small quantity late 2015
- RED Raven - Shipping February/March 2016
- Mystery "Scarlet Minded" DSMC[SUP]2[/SUP] camera - likely announcing at NAB 2016 (April-ish 2016), though not totally "for sure" just yet.

 

[sam karr]

im pretty sure he said the scarlet path wouldnt be announced until NAB, which is april, so im assuming not available until at least summer 2016. i think they have their hands full with getting out the weapon and the raven right now.

Too bad we, scarlet owners, are always the last ones, even when there is a cheaper version in the game.

 

[Brent Carter]

Jarred i asked this previous page im gonna ask it again.We should get on CF Weapon line just for priority or internals?
This time its different.We have different internals and specs.CF Dragon and MG one had no difference on electronics apart from less than kilo weight.

Internals, already answered. Priority, no formal announcement, but if you look at our track record, allocation priorities are usually from top down.

 

[Brent Carter]

Now we must determine how we can go to Carbon or Forged based on our existing pre-orders for the MG. So while the offer in savings are fantastic and greatly appreciated I wonder if there's a way to go to aluminum Weapon and use that savings toward going to Carbon or Forged. Could someone enlighten us please? Thank you.

Not quite sure of the question. Are you asking if you can switch your reservation from upgrade to W Mg to W CF? Of course.

 

[Brent Carter]

Too bad we, scarlet owners, are always the last ones, even when there is a cheaper version in the game.

Since I know about a little love coming along the way for SCARLET folks, I would suggest you be hopeful and excited, not bummed. Glass half full, man, half full.

 

[Alain M]

im pretty sure he said the scarlet path wouldnt be announced until NAB, which is april, so im assuming not available until at least summer 2016. i think they have their hands full with getting out the weapon and the raven right now.

True dat! And we can all wait no problem. The uncertain issue is if we buy now a Scarlet D, what happens next. If we could get some info regarding that without spilling any beans about the new mysterious Scarlet D, that's ok! We just want to know the upgrade path to see if it's worth to buy a Scarlet D now, or wait until NAB announcement.

If we are protected somehow and we know now we will not take a big loss by buying now a Scarlet D, and the users who already own the Scarlet D (NOT TO SELL IT) it gives us a glimpse to understand and make a correct decision.

My 2 cents

 

[Phil Holland]

True dat! And we can all wait no problem. The uncertain issue is if we buy now a Scarlet D, what happens next. If we could get some info regarding that without spilling any beans about the new mysterious Scarlet D, that's ok! We just want to know the upgrade path to see if it's worth to buy a Scarlet D now, or wait until NAB announcement.

If we are protected somehow and we know now we will not take a big loss by buying now a Scarlet D, and the users who already own the Scarlet D (NOT TO SELL IT) it gives us a glimpse to understand and make a correct decision.

In the same sentence you asked for information regarding the new camera as well as saying "without spilling the beans". That would indeed be spilling the beans.

The good thing to know is there is something Scarlet Dragon minded on the way. That should provide a hint towards features and possible pricing. I think what can safely be said is that it will be cheaper than the Weapon MG upgrade path.

That's about all we'll likely learn until the official announcement.

 

[Steve Murray]

Yes please. That savings will be awesome.

THANK YOU!

O back to the Magnesium upgrades for a second... I have a question for all of you in that upgrade line. I have a proposal for you guys straight from our manufacturing team. We can shave a few grand (3k-5k) off the price if we switch some of the internals to aluminum instead of magnesium.. The outside pieces will still be made out of magnesium so you will still inherit the weight savings but some of the internals we have an opportunity to gain a lot of efficiency in manufacturing and save you some cash.. Magnesium is stupidly cheap to cast but incredibly expensive to machine and it’s just not getting any cheaper or easier even with the increased volumes or the more that time goes by. I thought I would give you all a vote.

 

[Gene Sung]

@ Brent,

Any time frame on when a new customer can get a Magnesium Weapon? Will the Raven be available before the Weapon for new customers?

I ordered a Raven the first day, but if the Mag Weapon drops $5K or so, I would seriously consider paying the premium, especially if the Pro-Res on the Magnesium ends up higher than 2K. If Pro-Res on Mag Weapon was UHD, I would pay the huge price difference.

 

[Anthony Berenato Jr]

I'd jump on the upgrade train if I could save the money on moving to aluminum. Been fretting as an Epic Dragon owner that just moved from Scarlet Dragon months ago, and was extremely worried I wouldn't be able to make the upgrade happen with the higher cost. I'm sure that money will go back into accessories anyway.

 

[Brent Carter]

@ Brent,

Any time frame on when a new customer can get a Magnesium Weapon? Will the Raven be available before the Weapon for new customers?

I ordered a Raven the first day, but if the Mag Weapon drops $5K or so, I would seriously consider paying the premium, especially if the Pro-Res on the Magnesium ends up higher than 2K. If Pro-Res on Mag Weapon was UHD, I would pay the huge price difference.

I would think that once we are rolling on Mg upgrades, new Mg would be in that same timeframe.

 

[Clayton Taylor]

I'd kill to see where I am in the Raven queue... Trying to figure out when to start production in the spring on one film or if we need to push until April/May... ugh.. lol the stress of not knowing.