Update......

[jordan levy]

I'd kill to see where I am in the Raven queue... Trying to figure out when to start production in the spring on one film or if we need to push until April/May... ugh.. lol the stress of not knowing.

never count on a camera delivery to schedule a production, you never know what could happen, there could be a defect with yours or a problem or a delay, you shouldnt put yourself through that. allocate funds for a rental and if you get your camera and all the pieces in time then consider it a bonus. it's already went from feb to march...

 

[PatrickFaith]

Since I know about a little love coming along the way for SCARLET folks, I would suggest you be hopeful and excited, not bummed. Glass half full, man, half full.

I got on the RED train on the original scarlet purchase, and I think the most exciting thing about this thread is the HUGE steps in production and process you guys have made since then. I mean with the original scarlet, the timeline was uncertain and then my move to DRAGON was just icky (i love my dragon epics, but getting here from starting with my scarlet took some blood). With this status, it's like a dream to me, I can't hardly believe the progress your making in order date to delivery and delivering on what you say. Also I think your giving out just the right amount of information, enough for me to make my decisions but not so much in creating invalid expectations.

With this approach, by understating things a bit, I personally am also super excited on the Raven & Magnum (hehe ... with the aluminum casing how cannot it not be Magnum) update. Currently reduser's really have to understand RED to capture great performances (this is a frustratingly small number of people), but by adding a computer platform to the camera, people with just a few hours on a rental will be able to send to post with incredible footage - that's also huge in my mind.

I think people need to be mellow on the 8K timeline, that's rocket science intermixing jet fuel on dragsters ... it's by definition going to be explosively cool and at the same time it's hard to predict a timeline blowout.

 

[Akin A]

I can't see myself upgrading to anything less powerful than CF Weapon, but I don't need the CF housing and don't have the budget for the cost, right now. Mg is still too close to Epic Dragon in terms of data rate/image quality potential, so even if the upgrade cost was something like $10K, I couldn't justify spending it at this point. Let's get CF Weapon power in a less expensive metal housing. I keep mine in a cage anyway, lol.

 

[Brent Carter]

I can't see myself upgrading to anything less powerful than CF Weapon, but I don't need the CF housing and don't have the budget for the cost, right now. Mg is still too close to Epic Dragon in terms of data rate/image quality potential, so even if the upgrade cost was something like $10K, I couldn't justify spending it at this point. Let's get CF Weapon power in a less expensive metal housing. I keep mine in a cage anyway, lol.

I can pretty ssafely say we won't muddy the water between Mg and CF with an in-between offering. Granted, everything subject to change - I just would not hold my breath on this one.

 

[Clayton Taylor]

never count on a camera delivery to schedule a production, you never know what could happen, there could be a defect with yours or a problem or a delay, you shouldnt put yourself through that. allocate funds for a rental and if you get your camera and all the pieces in time then consider it a bonus. it's already went from feb to march...

lol trust me.. backup rentals are already in place. I'd just LIKE to shoot with my own camera... The start schedule on that project is a little more flexible so it's not the end of the world or anything.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

I can pretty ssafely say we won't muddy the water between Mg and CF with an in-between offering. Granted, everything subject to change - I just would not hold my breath on this one.

Brent 2 years ago you guys offered CF Dragon next to MG one, on upgrade path CF worth almost same with MG Dragon.You guys now guarantee it wont be same like that again on CF line ?

 

[Frank Martin]

Brent what does that mean. When I put our deposits down to upgrade to the magnesium weapon I did not do so thinking I was going to get a crippled camera only a camera that was not made out of carbon fiber . What will the cost of a non CF equivalent cost and why
Havnt you offered that option

 

[Stacey Spears]

Brent 2 years ago you guys offered CF Dragon next to MG one, on upgrade path CF worth almost same with MG Dragon.You guys now guarantee it wont be same like that again on CF line ?

EPIC is aluminum, not magnesium, so it is CF vs. Al.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

EPIC is aluminum, not magnesium, so it is CF vs. Al.

sorry for the confusion. but you get my point.

 

[Brent Carter]

sorry for the confusion. but you get my point.

He might, but I don't think I do?

If you have EPIC CF and are upgrading, you get $5000 more than someone upgrading from EPIC-M and $7000 more than someone with EPIC-X? That is "almost the same"?

And you also get top tier allocation priority, while EPIC-M is second, and EPIC-X third...

I would say both of those things are pretty meaningful.

 

[Stacey Spears]

sorry for the confusion. but you get my point.

Just only trying to point out that magnesium is more expensive than aluminum to manufacturer. You have to worry about fire when working with magnesium. It costs a lot more to manufacturer.

Brent what does that mean. When I put our deposits down to upgrade to the magnesium weapon I did not do so thinking I was going to get a crippled camera only a camera that was not made out of carbon fiber .

I think this is covered in the FAQ, but the big cost difference between the two cameras is the electronics and not the materials. Maybe Red needs this written in a larger font, bolded and blinking on their home page. I say only because this topic comes up over and over again as people compare the price difference between EPIC CF vs. Al and Weapon CF vs. Mg. EPIC price difference was on materials. WEAPON price difference is mostly on electronics.

 

[Milano Questa]

Red's line up is getting so confusing

 

[Brent Carter]

Brent what does that mean. When I put our deposits down to upgrade to the magnesium weapon I did not do so thinking I was going to get a crippled camera only a camera that was not made out of carbon fiber . What will the cost of a non CF equivalent cost and why
Havnt you offered that option

Frank, sorry, but I am not getting this either. The tech specs for both carbon fiber options as well as the magnesium were right there at launch so you knew exactly what you were putting a deposit down for.

And, yes, every person know that WEAPON Mg did not have the same board set as the CF ones. Again, right from the beginning. Only CF options had the board set horsepower to handle 8K.

And, if we are all being honest here, focus more on the boards inside the brain than the materials of the brain as far as driving cost. As Jarred stated in this very thread, updating the internal boards is going to be probably more pricey than the delta between buying WEAPON Mg and WEAPON Woven CF. Now, the cost of making the Forged, another story....

So, I really fail to see the reasoning that you are getting bait-and-switched to get a "crippled" camera here.

And, seriously, we are talking about cutting price of the W Mg in this thread, and people are using it as a forum to complain?

 

[Stacey Spears]

And you also get top tier allocation priority, while EPIC-M is second, and EPIC-X third...

I think this is a big one. While you don't see a dollar sign associated, it does make a difference on how soon you get your camera and can start earning money with it. Probably even more important when 8k upgrades start. For me, I ponied up the extra for Forged over CF in anticipation on 8k queue priority.

 

[Frank Martin]

Stacy I'm well aware of red position since the beginning I have been very confused I do not want a crippled camera system I simply don't want to pay for the cost of carbon fiber as I don't find it necessary. if there's a cheaper alternative to a weapon CFother then say yes if not then say no ......so far the weapon magnesium has been like a bastard child .if he doesn't do with the carbon fiber does then don't know what the problem is relative if you are up for it you know completely fuck up the rental market because people are still confused .....does the cameras record proes 4444 120 frames or only 60fps , will the MG weapon accept 33x LUTs or only 17x LUTs. Please Make the MG weapon The same as the carbon fiber weapon if you need to make the internals aluminum to make up the difference in cost .
please do so but to send out a crippled magnesium substandard weapon I do not believe is the right answer
I do not want a scarlet weapon. If RED. Feels carbon fiber is the only way forward I will pay the difference but I would just love to get one absolute answer

 

[Jarred Land]

Ok so back on track... looks like a resounding yes to the adjustment, Thanks everyone for the feedback. We will try our best to get the price updated in the store on Monday just waiting on the final numbers of the cost savings.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

He might, but I don't think I do?

If you have EPIC CF and are upgrading, you get $5000 more than someone upgrading from EPIC-M and $7000 more than someone with EPIC-X? That is "almost the same"?

And you also get top tier allocation priority, while EPIC-M is second, and EPIC-X third...

I would say both of those things are pretty meaningful.

now i get it

EPIC-M RED DRAGON W/ SIDE SSD AND LENS MOUNT$32,500.00
EPIC-M RED DRAGON (CARBON FIBER) W/ SIDE SSD MODULE (CARBON FIBER) AND MAGNESIUM LENS MOUNT 50,000

There is 2500$ difference and thats quite good for being top tier
Thank you for making everything more clear.

 

[Jarred Land]

Stacy I'm well aware of red position since the beginning I have been very confused I do not want a crippled camera system I simply don't want to pay for the cost of carbon fiber as I don't find it necessary. if there's a cheaper alternative to a weapon CFother then say yes if not then say no ......so far the weapon magnesium has been like a bastard child .if he doesn't do with the carbon fiber does then don't know what the problem is relative if you are up for it you know completely fuck up the rental market because people are still confused .....does the cameras record proes 4444 120 frames or only 60fps , will the MG weapon accept 33x LUTs or only 17x LUTs. Please Make the MG weapon The same as the carbon fiber weapon if you need to make the internals aluminum to make up the difference in cost .
please do so but to send out a crippled magnesium substandard weapon I do not believe is the right answer
I do not want a scarlet weapon. If RED. Feels carbon fiber is the only way forward I will pay the difference but I would just love to get one absolute answer

No idea what you are going on about or why you are asking Stacy for the spec differences but maybe you should pay a visit to the spec pages to see what you are after. http://www.red.com/products/weapon-dragon#tech-specs

 

[Phil Holland]

Red's line up is getting so confusing

I can help simplify it if you'd like.



The RED Camera Line-up as of 2015:

[table="width: 1000"]
[tr]
[td]Camera Brain Models[/td]
[td]Max Motion Res[/td]
[td]Max Still Res[/td]
[td]DSMC Body Type[/td]
[td]Internal Data Transfer Rate[/td]
[td]Release Date[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]EPIC Dragon[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]OG DSMC[/td]
[td]200MB/s[/td]
[td]Q4 2013[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]SCARLET Dragon[/td]
[td]5K[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]OG DSMC[/td]
[td]72MB/s[/td]
[td]Q2 2014[/td]

[/tr]
[tr]
[td]RAVEN[/td]
[td]4.5K[/td]
[td]4.5K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]140MB/s[/td]
[td]Q1 2016[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]"MYSTERY SCARLET Minded DSMC[SUP]2[/SUP] CAMERA"[/td]
[td]?K[/td]
[td]?K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]???MB/s[/td]
[td]Announcing Q2 2016, Shipping TBA[/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td]WEAPON 6K MG[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]225MB/s[/td]
[td]Announced Q2, Shipping TBA[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]WEAPON 6K Forged Carbon Fiber[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]300MB/s[/td]
[td]Q2 2015[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]WEAPON 6K Woven CF[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]6K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]300MB/s[/td]
[td]Q3/Q4 2015[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]WEAPON 8K Woven/Forged Carbon Fiber[/td]
[td]8K[/td]
[td]8K[/td]
[td]DSMC²[/td]
[td]300MB/s[/td]
[td]Q4 2015[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

 

[Frank Martin]

Ok brent I don't want to derail Thead but at NAB it was not that clear what each camera system would offer. Jared said that it would be very expensive to upgrade MG but made no other comment thussly it was not that clear at NAB when I made the deposit what the difference in cost would be. What does it cost Brentt