Update......

[Jeff McCoy]

Apologies, but I do not think taking the accessory credit back is fair. RED is manufacturing a cheaper camera (great!) but they are charging basically the same price at the end of the day because they are taking back the credit they offered in the first place.

This credit was supposed to only last the week of NAB... a week... it's been 7 months. It was going to come to an end. Now, with the added discount off the top, it's like the deal never ends. In fact, you can have BOTH deals if you order before tomorrow night (or already placed an order). That is AMAZING! That really doesn't seem "fair" to you? Dude...

 

[Scot Yount]

This credit was supposed to only last the week of NAB... a week... it's been 7 months. It was going to come to an end. Now, with the added discount off the top, it's like the deal never ends. In fact, you can have BOTH deals if you order before tomorrow night (or already placed an order). That is AMAZING! That really doesn't seem "fair" to you? Dude...

What we have here, is obviously people that don't understand NEW money.

 

[Jeff McCoy]

I've spoken to a few friends today who own Epic Dragons and they were completely unaware of the Wednesday deadline. They don't come here every day. It's unfair to them to not be aware of this important development.

That is the benefit to those of us who read Reduser often. It's a bonus. Not everyone will know about these special deals, but you can always tell your friends. Red has always been kind to their customers - the upgrade program in general is proof of that. NAB offered special discounts as well. It's up to you to seek out those deals. You cannot expect it to be someone else's job to inform everyone whenever there is a deal or a new product.

I don't mean to rip on you at all, I just have different logic I suppose.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Maybe an email blast couldn't hurt? But I'm not buying mg anyway, just a suggestion and thanks so much for the steal on 8k deposit!

 

[Daniel John]

Brent, got it. Yup, realized that the new discount only applied to Mg Weapon. I have no problem paying what you're asking for the CF Weapon. Just was wondering about the accessory credit and you cleared that up. Thanks so much and I'll be putting my order in soon.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Here's my $0.02.

It's April 2015. I'm at the NAB show floor. I hear the Weapon Mg upgrade costs X dollars. I also hear that if I put down my deposit soon, I will get a $5,000 accessory credit. "Limited time only"

Here's how I think it plays out.

1) I pay my deposit knowing i'm paying X dollars for my upgrade, and grab the $5,000 accessory credit.

Nice. I keep making money with my Dragon and later learn that the price of my upgrade went down by $5K, and that I still get the accessory credit.
Extra nice. I jumped in early and got rewarded for letting RED hang onto my money since April. I am a stoked RED customer.

2) I don't quite have the money ready to go yet, but I definitely want that accessory credit.

Since it's a limited time deal, I'm stoked to learn that RED decided to leave this credit available so I can think about it for more than just the week of NAB. I follow REDuser constantly to know when my window of opportunity is about to expire. I learn that the door is shutting Wednesday night at 11:59pm PST,

After learning that I can still get the $5000 of AKS, and finding out the upgrade is now X minus $5000, I run the numbers for my business and decide...

a) To bite the bullet and put the deposit down, knowing that i'm locking in the $5,000 of accessories and also getting the $5,000 discount off of what I thought I was going to spend in April. Nice. I eat ramen for three months but I'm a stoked RED customer.
b) To keep my current package, because the Dragon is still an amazing cinema camera, and I have everything set up the way I like it and don't have to worry about new modules/mags/rig setups etc. I like the value of the discount + aks credit but it's just too much money. But I still have an amazing camera and i'm a stoked RED customer.

Now it's November 17th, 2015. T-24 hours until the accessory credit is finally going away. Two things happen.


3) I totally forgot about the Weapon upgrade. What's that? The $5,000 accessory credit is gone but now the cost is $5,000 less? Nice. I'd rather have money in hand than a gift card anyway. I'm a stoked RED customer that does not read REDuser.

4) I had to sell all my houses, mortgage Park Place, Boardwalk, and all my railroads, but I got enough money to do the upgrade. But i'm pissed that this next generation 6K digital cinema camera will cost me $9000 net (instead of $14,000). Ridiculous. I get angry. I throw the Monopoly board across the room. Christmas is ruined. But it's okay. There's one last gift under the tree. It's a Fuck Formal shirt currently available for $38 on amazon.com I put it on, pass Go, collect $200 and keep making money with my current Dragon and when my spot in line comes around, I know I can always defer until I get the rest of the upgrade $$$ together. All is well. And I have one of the softest shirts ever made. I am a stoked RED customer.


I just have to rant about this. This is starting to feel like the Starbucks red cup issue. What is everyone mad about? No matter what situation you're in, RED is doing the absolute best thing for you, not their business. I think they deserve a bit of credit for that. This credit wasn't supposed to last forever. This $5,000 wasn't going to happen until RED decided they could, for the customer. I don't know how they stay in business, but what they do for the business of cinema is incredible.

 

[Jeff McCoy]

4) I had to sell all my houses, mortgage Park Place, Boardwalk, and all my railroads, but I got enough money to do the upgrade. But i'm pissed that this next generation 6K digital cinema camera will cost me $9000 net (instead of $14,000). Ridiculous. I get angry. I throw the Monopoly board across the room. Christmas is ruined. But it's okay. There's one last gift under the tree. It's a Fuck Formal shirt currently available for $38 on amazon.com I put it on, pass Go, collect $200 and keep making money with my current Dragon and my your spot in line comes around, knowing I can always defer until I get the rest of the upgrade $$$ together. All is well. And I have one of the softest shirts ever made. I am a stoked RED customer.

Haha, this is great.

 

[steve green]

As long as everyone is thowing down their requests....How 'bout some extra Red SSD mags trade in love for folks that bought marketplace mags. Can they be eligible for the trade in to mini mags too?

 

[scott devitte]

Cannot see that happening. As Jarred said in his original post, these are tough as nails to make. Harder than we thought, truly...

I among others made a huge commitment to going 8k at NAB back in April. That was a really crazy first night, waiting to see what the offer would be, and then jumping in quickly- a leap of faith- that RED was boldly taking a huge step into the future, and that those of us who bought the e ticket that night were in at the top of the ride. At that point carbon fiber was the way you could go into 8k.

And then came forged, which threw a bit of a time delay into carbon fiber 6k delivery, but for me getting 8k as soon as possible is what is important, I mean the big change from my beautiful Dragons is 8k, that carbon fiber 6k was delayed for forged to happen was made easier to take when Jarred announced in July that 8k upgrade would go in order of time/date stamp only. And that forged 8k would come later when ordering was opened again.

When I brought this up recently and that Brent quickly researched and confirmed this, it really vindicated my decision to go all in on 8k. Now with whatever manufacturing delays occur, and whatever time it takes make it right, we who ponied up early are going to, well, pony up early in the 8k delivery horse race.

To ask for "in the spirit of things" in an open window, to be able to pay the $10,000 NAB 8k fee is one thing, but I hope you are not asking for forged buyers to somehow change the clock, again.

And, remembering at NAB as everybody was trying to decide which upgrade way to go, it is fabulous that RED is making the magnesium upgrade an even better deal for those who bought in.

Amazing company we are keeping company with.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Ignoring the fact that Joe has posted a pic of a v-mount battery and the top handle both working together on Weapon, you don't actually need to use the top handle to operate the camera. And it is not like you are paying for the top handle since it is a free accessory that is included with the upgrade.

Since Weapon wasn't an option until my last minute decisions yesterday due to all this, I haven't read everything about Weapon and instead focused on my Epic Dragon. This is why I asked about it and it's wonderful if the top handle and the V-mount works together. I try to keep my camera down to minimum size contained as a whole, without "moving parts", so having a V-lock battery on camera is a big deal for me actually. Where can I find this pic?

Nathan, Sam, Gene, Dan, cheers.

We are trying out best to put ourselves in the customer's shoes and do what we'd want our camera company of choice to do. We have made it clear the accessory credit would eventually end. Like some have said, the accessory credit was initially going to end after NAB ended 7 months ago. For supply chain and planning purposes, doing special deals like this and the 8K deal give us an early assessment on demand as we order long lead time parts. And this week, we are ending it for WEAPON Mg upgrades, but replacing it with a $5000 cash savings.

I know sometimes out methods and such are confusing, but it is done all with the best intentions.

I did know that it was ending, but I was checking out the Weapon here in Sweden two weeks ago and asked, because I knew this, when it's ending and he said I would have it even if I jumped on Weapon a year from now. So that is why this has been so confusing yesterday. If this is so clear, the reps who talks to customers out in the field should tell the same thing.

That being said, I had to ask a lot of things in a short period of time in order to make a decision now, so I'm sorry to have made an impression of not being happy about what Red is doing, I am. I just think everyone bashing me now for being an ass should chill a little, it might be an easy choice for others, it wasn't for me, however good the deal is.

 

[Craig Lees]

Hi Brent,

Do you know when the upgrade path from Epic Dragon to any weapon (but preferably 8K) runs out?

Cheers,

Craig Lees
3DStories
ED & SX UK

 

[M. Lalande]

We can shave a few grand (3k-5k) off the price if we switch some of the internals to aluminum instead of magnesium..

Yes!
That'd be great!

 

[Kenny Mosher]

I just want to thank Brent and Jared for this amazing offer. I honestly wasn't even considering upgrading for a year but now I am able to! Thanks for your hard work and for your generosity to this community. Rock on!!

 

[Andrei Goaga]

This is AMAZING! A big THANK YOU for all this hard work and passion for cinema! I might be able to jump in the upgrade to MgWeapon because of this! A BIG thumbs up for Jared and Brent!

 

[Andrei Goaga]

Any plans for a Mg -> Cf upgrade path in the future?

Thanks

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

Any plans for a Mg -> Cf upgrade path in the future?

Thanks

There will be. But it has been stated that it may cost a bit more than just opting for CF right now.

Of course. That said. In 2 years lots can change. Mg for most content is a beast.

 

[Elsie N]

Any plans for a Mg -> Cf upgrade path in the future?

Thanks

My thoughts are that you should be thinking about the upgrade path to the new (unannounced) sensor that will be coming in the future. I'm guessing you will prefer that to the CF body, even with an 8k sensor.

 

[Björn Benckert]

My thoughts are that you should be thinking about the upgrade path to the new (unannounced) sensor that will be coming in the future. I'm guessing you will prefer that to the CF body, even with an 8k sensor.

Agree while we are sitting here ruling our hands waiting to soon get that weapon, for sure there are some guys at red that already left that party and they are now working on post dragon sensors...

Whats the saying? "Don't look at the ball, dont look where it will touch down, but try to figure out where it will bounce"....

 

[Andy White]

Arghhh!

Been to busy to keep on top of things for a few days and just saw this.... and was just checking in whilst having a tea break and noticed Christoffer's Weapon postings.

I'd ruled out Weapon (as had many others) in terms of expense... and was going to focus on getting some other bits for my Epic Dragon.

I can't wrap my head around all the info now (still working on a job as I type)... so there's no way to make an informed business decision as I'd at least need to knock up some spreadsheets on my side to see how the figures match up (with my intended Epic purchases vs the Weapon equivalents).

One question that comes to mind is does the upgrade include a changeover to mini-mags? Currently I'm looking at trying to move to minis (and get a +1 for my Epic Dragon... but have a feeling I might be throwing money away on older tech, so there's already a fair chunk of cash there...

I see where Christoffer was coming from yesterday... and now I see the EOTL on this today... so late to the party again!

Any chance of having a few more days grace for people to see if it'll work for them?

 

[Bryan Koss]

Seems about time for an update since it's been awhile.

6k Carbon Weapon upgrades are happening at a steady pace and we are trying to get through all of them by the end of next month then jump right into the Magnesium Weapons.

Raven pre-production is humming along.... the production 4.5k sensors should be coming in very soon, looks like we only lost a few weeks on that resolution bump up and the rest of the camera is ready for action, so we still look good on shipping in March after the assembly lines clear up. I have been taking the Raven prototype with me on my recent globetrotting and it is really is a killer. Getting this much image quality from a camera in this price bracket is phenomenal.

8K Weapon- We are still going to ship the first batch of 8K Weapons out to the wild in 2015.. and then there will be a gap as we build up the next batch of sensors . Each batch is gonna take a few months....We are taking our time with the 8K. It is a stupidly slow, expensive train with an intense QC process and making these sensors is almost impossible with a huge amount of yield fallout ( hence the price ) . But damn is it worth it. Once you shoot the 8K its really hard to go back.. The VV sensor size with this much resolution, dynamic range and frame rates is a monumental leap on every level. It really is the king of ALL cameras.

O back to the Magnesium upgrades for a second... I have a question for all of you in that upgrade line. I have a proposal for you guys straight from our manufacturing team. We can shave a few grand (3k-5k) off the price if we switch some of the internals to aluminum instead of magnesium.. The outside pieces will still be made out of magnesium so you will still inherit the weight savings but some of the internals we have an opportunity to gain a lot of efficiency in manufacturing and save you some cash.. Magnesium is stupidly cheap to cast but incredibly expensive to machine and it’s just not getting any cheaper or easier even with the increased volumes or the more that time goes by. I thought I would give you all a vote.

Quick question - is the "First Batch of 8K Weapons out in the wild in 2015" considered to be those who paid the deposit at NAB2015?

Cheers,

Bryan