Red Epic Dragon #5232 "Kozmo" - Los Angeles

[Phil Holland]

Looking great Phil, keep up the good work and see you at NAB. I am moving out to LA at the end of the month, lets grab a pint.

Sound good Clayton. Here's a pre-welcome to LA!


I'm packing for South Korea and off in the morning. Prepping my last notes to discuss Dragon as well.

Before I go, some Dragon footage of those birds with that particular color grade. Just a mellow video to help everybody go to sleep tonight.

6K HD, 8:1, 72fps, various ISOs, pulled heavy in post. Shot on the Schneider Cine-Xenar III 35mm T2.1, mostly around T8-T11.

Best watched in 1080p or 4K in a dark room.

 

[Phil Holland]

And a quick link to a UHD 4K of the title image:

http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/reduser/phfx_redEpicDragon_herBlackBirds.jpg


Dragon has made me rethink a lot of what I do in capture in post. From exposing to color grading. This particular grade was pushed exceptionally hard. It's actually fascinating where things are now with this much dynamic range.

 

[Nick Morrison]

WOW. Amazing. Hitchcock would have been proud.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for all your great posts on reduser. Very helpful.

Can you tell me what time you signed up for your upgrade at NAB 2013? Trying to get a handle on where Red is in the process….

Thx,
Mark

 

[Phil Holland]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for all your great posts on reduser. Very helpful.

Can you tell me what time you signed up for your upgrade at NAB 2013? Trying to get a handle on where Red is in the process….

My particular case would be far from normal expectations as I sold my soul for a pint of Dragon blood around the time of it's announcement and it's consumed my time since then.

However, if I had any true theory on where Red is in the "process" it would be now that new OLPFs and this new Calibration has been made (and I believe locked) NAB is on the horizon and Red is likely preparing/stocking up for post NAB upgrades/sales. I know a few new Dragons have left Red recently, so they are still flying out. I do know these particular sensors are a difficult thing to manufacture and that's been a proven point in the past. I don't think there's a current sensor delay though.

Personally from an image making perspective the camera that is available now is the one you really want (as well as the one clients would want even more so) as everybody with the previous tech will want to send their Dragon's back to Red for the OLPF and Calibration update to benefit from recent changes. Dragon was good before all this, but it's much better now. So for me I'd say April, May, and June are likely busy upgrade months for many. Take that with a grain of salt as it's based more on observation, but I'm certainly not Red.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'll take this moment prior to taking flight to say my instagram might be worth watching this week. I'll do my best to post regularly during this trip.

[url]http://instagram.com/philhollandphfx
[/URL]

 

[Stefan Viklund]

Beautiful Phil!! The second one (16sec-32sec) is mouaurvelous
In the scene right after that, there's some banding going on, compression online-crap, so sick'n'tired of it!!
Awesome (future) days when we have disgustingly fat bandwidth and can upload stuff without the compression compromise.

But Yeah!, beautiful! The falloff is like a creamy dose of yummy!

 

[Phil Holland]

Two days of the Red Dragon/UHD workshop are down here in South Korea. It's been an amazing journey and challenge (explaining technical camera related topics with two translators and simplifying those concepts is really interesting). A bit more shooting today with the attendees and then we focus on post workflow. I'll be using Redcine-X Pro, Davinci Resolve with full panel with Red Rocket-X as well as GPU acceleration today featuring 3x nViidia Titan GPUs. Got some fun tricks up my sleeves for this one today. I like getting the laughs and the wows. It's been great so far.

Can't believe my time here is almost over. It's been such an unreal experience.

 

[Phil Holland]

The DVInside, Red Korea, RAPA, UHD workshop ended earlier today. This was an unforgettable experience here in South Korea. A day of rest, meetings, and shooting awaits with a day of travel that follows. Expect a nice rundown of this event with pictures in the near future.

Unreal.

 

[Phil Holland]

Just a quick, quick update as NAB looms near.

As I mentioned above and you guys likely saw in this thread: Red Dragon UHD 4K Workshop South Korea

That workshop has concluded and in my mind very successful. I can't stress how much of an honor it was to demonstrate Dragon and the UHD workflow to South Korean motion picture professionals.


Got back to home and quickly setup a new piece of kit to my arsenal. A Sharp 70" UHD 4K display.

Thought I'd share a couple of quick thoughts on this matter as I slowly populate my workstation and workflow with more 4K displays. This large sharp screen will serve as a review and QC display. One of the tricky things in the world of 4K+ VFX is quality control and review. Having the big screen allows me to see what pops out and problem solve quickly. My next target is going to be something in the 28"-ish range and there's a few options. I will also be adding more and more 4K devices into the mix.

One added perk from this particular display is that it comes equipped with SmartTV features. For instance, I have now been able to see House of Cards Season 2 in 4K right from Netflix on this box. And I'm still trying to figure out the ins and outs of it, but some of my Youtube 4K demo videos as well. Pretty cool.

In this case I have the REDRAY hooked up to it and it looks well...... freaking awesome. Not going to hold back on that. The optimal viewing distance on this display according to Sharp is a mere 6 feet, which provides a very cinema like viewing angle. It's freaking me out the stuff I can do these days with these tools (tools that used to cost seven figures btw) and this is no exception. Nice looking back on this couple year old piece shot on my long gone yet beloved Red Scarlet-X "Skully" with the Mysterium-X sensor. Miss that little guy, but I'm pretty damn happy with Dragon these days.

Quick Dragon note as I mentioned it. It's a funny thing as I've been working with it for a while now. We all know about the 6K and Dynamic Range, both great things. But it seems what comes up time after time with those who are getting theirs or get to shoot on Dragon is the positive comments on the vastly improved color. It's just a whole different thing in reality compared to Mysterium-X. Something that once you shoot in a variety of conditions, especially for those experienced MX shooters, you start feeling the difference very strongly. That's a good thing.

This week I'm finishing editing and color work on a spot I shot prior to leaving for South Korea and I'm also rushing out a few more clips for NAB. I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss a small horror comedy to shoot early summer and after that who knows! (Well I have a few secret plans!)

Looking forward to NAB and seeing a few of y'all (I'm from California promise) over there.

Here's a couple of my favorite grabs from South Korea, shot on Dragon. Love me some rich tones.

Something fascinating about South Korea is the intruding pollution coming over from China produces a very nice and diffused warm light, got addicted to it pretty quick. Sort of like magic hour except it seems to last about 3 hours, which is far longer than the 40 or so minutes of actual magic hour we get here in LA.

Cheers and hopefully I can knock this edit/color out and share some material soon from this shoot.

 

[Brian Boyer]

My next target is going to be something in the 28"-ish range and there's a few options.

If color accuracy and color/brightness/contrast consistency at reasonable viewing angles aren't important to you (HA!), get the Dell P2815Q. **

The TN panel technology it uses isn't up to snuff. There's a range of blues, in particular, this monitor simply can't reproduce, rendering them purplish.

I bought it (on sale) for a very specific purpose and my tests indicate it should work perfectly for it. If screen real estate is what you're after and it's not intended to be a main monitor, it's not a bad deal.

This article supports my experience, although their main deal breaker is something I'm not overly concerned with, as I'm not a gamer: http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/459878-dude-dont-get-dell-4k-monitor

The Lenovo ThinkVision Pro2840m claims a color gamut of 72% and is due out this month: http://news.lenovo.com/images/20034/ThinkVision Spec Sheets.pdf


** For those of you who may have misread my sarcasm, DO NOT get that monitor if those things are important to you.

 

[Phil Holland]

Yep. Thanks for that Brian. That smaller monitor will have to be a bit more color critical.


Entirely interesting side not. A phone call I just had was mostly about glass.

The fascinating question that was posed:

If you hand all the money on earth what cinema lenses would you have in your arsenal?

I don't have that coin, but it got me thinking. It more or less breaks down like this:

- Leica Summilux-C Primes
- Cooke S4 Primes
- Schneider Cine-Xenar III Primes
- Zeiss Compact Zooms, all three of them
- Zeiss Master Anamorphic Primes

If I had that kind of cash I would likely get a pristine set of Leica-R still primes rehoused in PL as well as a few of the modern Canon Super Telephotos. Probably a set of the Schneider Xenon-FF Primes to have around for 6K shooting.

I'd also likely grab the Leica Summicron-Cs. Maybe a few Master Primes in there. Like a limited 3 or 5 lens set. There's a few I actually really, really like. Maybe an Angenieux or two as I love that look. Maybe, maybe the Vantage Ones.

There's a couple of odd ball lenses I'd toss into that as well, but that's the meat of the list.

That was a fun quick little conversation. Mostly German glass, which is interesting for me.

NAB is around the corner. This might change a bit

 

[Billy Jim]

Phil, what do you make of:

http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2014/03/why-do-we-want-flat-glass/

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, what do you make of:

http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2014/03/why-do-we-want-flat-glass/

Pretty much what I wrote here:

While a useful comparison this isn't exactly groundbreaking news. This does exemplify why it's extremely important to test lenses yourselves for whatever type of production you're shooting.

More or less this shows the difference between spherical and aspherical design and the effect each has on the image. For some curvature of field/distortion isn't exactly desirable, however, in this test Shane finds it produces the look that suits his and his director's preference.

I'm pretty familiar with both of these sets of primes. One thing I can say is while the 21mm was tested with a cowboy frame if you attempt to shoot a medium or close up with the 21mm Leica Summilux-C you will see distinct advantages to the flatter draw of the lens.

That's not to detract from the Cooke S4s and the Cooke Look, port of which is this particular level of distortion. Some prefer it. Some don't. The Cookes have shot plenty of gorgeous films over the years.

Lens character and technical performance is a very heavy conversation for most DPs. Many of the top tier guys find a set of primes (or two) they enjoy shooting with and stick with that for a long time. The only thing that is important from a shooter's perspective is to understand a lens's strengths and weaknesses to get the image you want from them.

One fun thing I'm not such a big fan of is breathing while focusing, the zooming effect you get when pulling focus. Some lenses have minimal breathing, some have none, most exhibit it in some way or form. One of the reasons I didn't go with the Zeiss Ultra Primes for my personal lens set was exactly this. For instance the Ultra Prime 32mm T1.9 breathes like a pig, however the Zeiss T1.3 32mm Master Prime does not. It's a more "wrangled" design that for me is pleasing to shoot with - which is important for a lot of folks at this particular focal length.

I often think to Kubrick and how he was trying to create moving paintings with much of his work. If all the paintings on the big screen looked the same it would be boring indeed.

These last couple of years with all the time I've spent with various primes and zooms, literally all of them that are available, I've more or less come to the conclusion that there is no "best lens". Only the best lens suited for your project and budget. While there is such a thing as the "technical best lens" that doesn't always mean it's the best choice for a given story, look, or feel.

Shocked to see that Panavision Primos were brought up in a somewhat negative way here. Those are some of the prettiest lenses around in my opinion. But to each their own

Shane's a good and hard working guy with a great eye for lighting and framing. Glad he put this together.

 

[Billy Jim]

Right before the 2 minute mark at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c_d_WUXs5Q
AJA guy said PL glass over the next year or so is going to come down a lot.

Phil, would you share what you know?

 

[Phil Holland]

Right before the 2 minute mark at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c_d_WUXs5Q
AJA guy said PL glass over the next year or so is going to come down a lot.

Phil, would you share what you know?

I know lots of things, but not exactly what he's thinking/talking about.

My theory is he is referring to the attraction towards larger formats that might make S35 lens prices drop. However, this hasn't been the case and that particular format is going to be around for a long time.

However, there are now more options on the lower tiered price points for PL glass with the Zeiss CP.2s and Schneider Xenon FF-Primes. A bit more if you want to convert say Canon CN-E Primes.

The Zunow Imperial primes which were said to be $3-4K per T1.5 lens as far as I know are a dead end project. They were nowhere to be seen at NAB and the last two demo sets were horrifically bad. That was a year ago. The first demo set however. Well.... I'd buy that glass if they could actually make it for that price.

As for lenses on the horizon. I know there are a few lenses on the way. We will see a new set of anamorphics, but not till next NAB and might not be shipping until the following year. There's also a few prime sets that people are investigating making, no lenses yet. As well as more still lens companies releasing PL versions of their glass. That's the realistic thing to bring down prices.

The Zeiss Otus line will eventually be put into a cine lens housing. This won't happen until the 85mm f/1.4 and likely the 35mm f/1.4 or 25mm f/1.4 are done. They won't do it until there's a three lens set, though they might show it when two lenses are available. That's not exactly going to be cheap though. Probably priced above CP.2s and below Ultra Primes.

 

[Billy Jim]

Thank you Phil for both replies.

 

[Phil Holland]

Just a quickie as I'm on my way to eat some grub.

Been a hot minute since I've updated this thread, but it's been a whirlwind these last couple months. I've been working on some "business" stuff and doing some pre-production work mainly at the moment. In my spare time I've been exploring some new hardware options for working on Dragon material.

However, here's a couple odd bits I've added to my kit I wanted to chat about.




I've had this really huge urge to add some more bizarre glass to my lens kit for Dragon. Mainly two lengths. 180mm and 28mm.

After a couple of good conversations with Christopher Probst and Evin Grant I wend down a weird tunnel to seek out a weird 28mm with decent performance. Found a few options ranging in f/1.9-f/2.8 glass.

I settled and picked up a Vivitar 28mm f/2.5. I bought two and both feature M42 via screw off adapter that fits into a T2, which should make this fairly trivial to slap a PL mount on. I've been missing 28mm real bad from my kit as it's the only lens I've ever had stolen. I miss it. I see it's need in my kit and I wanted something a bit odd, but decent.

Here's a test shot that I took from our current gallery show at Gnomon, The Art of Titanfall:




The other lens that I'm really excited about I've actually been hunting down for a while. It's an Isco Tele-Iscaron 180mm f/2.8 prime.




These aren't very common and I bought two as well. As some of you may know the Schneider Cine-Xenar III primes are made by Isco and I've been itching to get one long lens that works well with the set. My early impressions are promising. So promising I'll be having a PL mount permanently mounted on the back of one of these. I've already had Duclos Lenses service and clean them, but now the journey to conversion begins. Right after I test it out a bit more.

The other ones in that above image are a Tele-Iscaron 135mm f/2.8, dig it. Don't know what I'm doing with it. Also the Canon FL 55mm f/1.2 lens that I modifed to EF mount myself. I think I'm going to make a stab at mounting that to PL on my own.


One other bit of kit I added to my collection real recently was this new bag from Panavision (taken with the 180mm Isco btw):



Initially I was going to use this for my camera, but I've decided that it's going to be a sudo camera assistant/camera supply bag. So I'll have various filters and accessories in there. Works well for the camera, but I think the bag is more "handy" served as a proper AC bag. It does feature a top shelf as well, which I'm itching to use. It's similar to the Arri Basecamp series and made by the same people, however, Panavision asked for a very specific size and internal dividers including that top shelf and they turned out a lovely rugged bag that is somewhat water resistant. Nice job. Not the cheapest thing on earth. And now I have 3 bags in this category, but a welcome addition.


Other than that I'm working on a new Dragon related thing. Should have that done soon-ish. But first sushi.

 

[Isaac Marchionna]

Ordered the same bag myself.

 

[Phil Holland]

Hi. I seem to make late night posts


Dragon 6K HD, REDCODE 8:1, Schneider Cine-Xenar III 75mm T2. Haven't shot this particular face since I had my trusty old Scarlet-X "Skully" back in 2011 when dinosaurs roamed the earth.