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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED DRAGON Scores Highest DXOMark Score ever.

Strange, I don't see any " terrible cameras with weird industrial sensors" at the top of the list, only reputable cameras.
 
Logan Smith said:
Not to rain on the fanboy parade but I would take DXOMark scores with a grain of salt. I think the DXOMark grading system is somewhat arbitrary, some of their tests in the past have been flawed and I know a lot of photographers who agree. DXOMark could theoretically test a weird industrial sensor and it could score super high in DXOMark but would actually make for a terrible camera in reality. They also haven't tested any other cinema cameras. For all we know, the Blackmagic 4k or C500 could score higher in these tests (I highly doubt that though). Certainly, this test sheds some light on the incredible capabilities of the Dragon sensor and I'm personally very excited for my Dragon but I don't think anyone should think of these DXOMark tests as flawless evaluations to flaunt around town like we're #1.

And ultimately, producers care more about reliability, ease-of-use, post-workflow and skin tone quality than positive sensor evaluations especially when they can't compare them with any of the competition. For all they know the Alexa is still the better camera and they're likely to see these tests as just more Red fanboy hype. Sorry to be a party pooper, just keeping it real.
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None of the other cinema cameras claim to produce stills like the RED system. RED DSMC (Digital Stills Motion Camera). Magazines and photo spreads have been shot with RED cameras, none of the others have. I bet even if those cameras were tested they wouldn't score as high... I welcome it but don't think it's possible with those cameras.
 
Logan Smith said:
And ultimately, producers care more about reliability, ease-of-use, post-workflow and skin tone quality than positive sensor evaluations especially when they can't compare them with any of the competition. For all they know the Alexa is still the better camera
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What are you talking about?
Are you a DP? A producer? A fanboy? A REDuser? An Alexa user? I don't understand your point here?
Do you want to tell us that Alexa is the best camera out there? Then ok, good for you if you feel it's the best tool for your needs. Let the other choose their best tools. No one will die if you shoot on Alexa. I'm happy you choose Alexa and keep shooting on Alexa.

Pat
 
Logan Smith said:
Not to rain on the fanboy parade but I would take DXOMark scores with a grain of salt. I think the DXOMark grading system is somewhat arbitrary, some of their tests in the past have been flawed and I know a lot of photographers who agree. DXOMark could theoretically test a weird industrial sensor and it could score super high in DXOMark but would actually make for a terrible camera in reality. They also haven't tested any other cinema cameras. For all we know, the Blackmagic 4k or C500 could score higher in these tests (I highly doubt that though). Certainly, this test sheds some light on the incredible capabilities of the Dragon sensor and I'm personally very excited for my Dragon but I don't think anyone should think of these DXOMark tests as flawless evaluations to flaunt around town like we're #1.

And ultimately, producers care more about reliability, ease-of-use, post-workflow and skin tone quality than positive sensor evaluations especially when they can't compare them with any of the competition. For all they know the Alexa is still the better camera and they're likely to see these tests as just more Red fanboy hype. Sorry to be a party pooper, just keeping it real.
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http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...k-Score-ever&p=1334242&viewfull=1#post1334242
 
Bill Anderson said:
Strange, I don't see any " terrible cameras with weird industrial sensors" at the top of the list, only reputable cameras.
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Hence the "theoretically".

Patrick Tresch said:
What are you talking about?
Are you a DP? A producer? A fanboy? A REDuser? An Alexa user? I don't understand your point here?
Do you want to tell us that Alexa is the best camera out there? Then ok, good for you if you feel it's the best tool for your needs. Let the other choose their best tools. No one will die if you shoot on Alexa. I'm happy you choose Alexa and keep shooting on Alexa.

Pat
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I think I was being pretty clear. I'm an Epic owner and Red supporter. Like I said, I think the tests are very exciting and revealing. Red should be proud! However, I don't think the DXOMark grading system is without it's flaws or that tests like this will do much to convince many of the people in the industry Red is really trying to convert, namely producers who doubt Red cameras and are tired of hearing Red hype.

Sorry to be a skeptic, this test is clearly evidence that the sensor is capable of incredible image quality and everyone at Red should be very proud but one positive sensor evaluation does not a great cinema camera make. That's all I'm saying.
 
Logan Smith said:
Hence the "theoretically".



I think I was being pretty clear. I'm an Epic owner and Red supporter. Like I said, I think the tests are very exciting and revealing. Red should be proud! However, I don't think the DXOMark grading system is without it's flaws or that tests like this will do much to convince many of the people in the industry Red is really trying to convert, namely producers who doubt Red cameras and are tired of hearing Red hype.

Sorry to be a skeptic, this test is clearly evidence that the sensor is capable of incredible image quality and everyone at Red should be very proud but one positive sensor evaluation does not a great cinema camera make. That's all I'm saying.
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Hey Logan... I'm trying to look at your comments analytically and I think what you are forgetting is that the DXOMark scores are just like the whip cream topping on pie. The Dragon has been touted by many long before the tests in question were done. It was already famous.

As for producers who doubt RED cameras and are tired of hearing the hype, I don't think we here on Reduser and those who are enthusiastic in the industry should suddenly go quiet because a few producers are skeptics. If anything, as a future Dragon owner you should be basking in the fantastic results from the Stills photography test done on the Epic.

It's not just one positive sensor evaluation. It is just one that adds a stills enthusiasm to the thousands of motion positive reports already out there... for quite a long time... and things are getting even better.
 
Magazines and photo spreads have been shot with RED cameras, none of the others have.
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Matt, I can see where you are coming from, but for historical accuracy, most HD cameras from decade ago have been occasionally used for magazine covers, even if only for trade magazines, where a portrait aspect is enlarged from a frame grab of landscape original aspect.

Perhaps better to say that the Epic is the choice for dedicated photo shoots?


Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne
 
"Not to rain on the fanboy parade but I would take DXOMark with a grain of salt"

"The tests are very exciting and revealing"

"Red should be proud"

"The DXO grading system is not without its flaws"

"Sorry to be a sceptic, this test is clearly evidence that the sensor is capable of incredible image quality… be proud but…"

DXOMark grading system is somewhat arbitrary"

"For all we know BlackMagic 4K or C500 could score higher ( I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT THOUGH)"

"producers care about… skin tone quality [more] than positive sensor evaluations.. and for all they know Alexa is better and they're likely to see these tests as red fanboy hype…"


Yikes.
 
I haven't tried ADD yet. Exciting stuff, a motion camera shoots stills like a DSLR, glad I choose this bus.

Nils Ruinet said:
Impressive. And I guess they didn't get to try ADD...
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No Logan, you did not fail..... Sadly we have a long road ahead to convince both DPs and producers that Dragon is an amazing camera.... I thought the analysis was a real positive... But maybe just among the existing believers. I can only hope that as more and more Dragon footage gets out there it will be more clear that it is an amazing choice.....
 
Jarred Land said:
Very proud of this one.

The folks over at DXOmark, who have become the bible of camera testing , have tested the Dragon and the results are pretty incredible.


The Dragon rose above all still cameras tested before it, including the best full frame and medium format cameras.


Combining the best imaging sensor with the ability to shoot 100 frames per second opens up a whole new world of imaging to photographers.


http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/RED-E...ace-101-points

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/0...ource=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_1

http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...-as-best-sensor-yet-beats-out-even-full-frame

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/0...pic-dragon-camera-gives-it-highest-score-ever

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57619800-76/reds-camera-wows-with-top-score-in-image-sensor-test/

http://petapixel.com/2014/03/03/red-epic-dragon-outstrips-d800e-dxomark-tests-breaks-100-points/
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Hmm yes, I was just going to post a thread about it. I could see it by eye a while ago, I could see the same creaminess from images from both cameras I did not say anything because what do I know, and there are always some drongo that will denounce me as not knowing what I'm talking about.

Now that you beat them Jarred, can we please have a 6k (or 8k) still camera that produces ready to use 4k 100fps footage below $5k ready to use (like Red One) with full weather proof auto manual zoom lenses, for stills and video shooting? That is basically what I wanted all along, and I think a number of people. 6k footage does not matter as long as the 4k footage has on set color and exposure metadata, and is pushable in post.
 
Logan Smith said:
I was just trying to walk a fine line without pissing off the fanboys. Clearly, I failed...
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It looks like you were not trying to walk a fine line at all. It seems as if you wish to celebrate and yet at the same time desperately want to distance yourself from others who have done so, and done so in a manner that is far more reserved and informed than you seem willing to give credit for. What are you trying to say?
 
Not to rain on the fanboy parade but I would take DXOMark scores with a grain of salt. I think the DXOMark grading system is [...] camera and they're likely to see these tests as just more Red fanboy hype. Sorry to be a party pooper, just keeping it real.
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I met the guys at dxo last august, we were testing several Sony f65 for hdr purpose. they are doing "mathematic" tests, right, but most of them also work in other places, like Technicolor to say the least. They are the most trusted lab you can find... A bunch of techs with a sense of taste.

When they received the camera, they didn't had to wait the end of the tests to see it was the best they ever had in hand. Because you're wrong, they work with other cameras too. But not as parts of theorical tests like this.
 
I'm enjoying the Dragon chatter I see whizzing by on a day to day basis. Here on Reduser, in my inbox, and out in the field. Everybody has something to say it appears.

What matters though?

I know I'm doing things with this camera I've never done with a motion picture camera before. That's more or less where I like to explore image making. That's the exciting edge. I've been pushing it (perhaps too far even) in post. Much of my experience thus far with Dragon has been observing how to get the most out of it in capture and just how far it can be manipulated. It feels new and different - yet familiar in some ways. You can shoot it careful, you can shoot it moderately reckless even.

This test is a milestone whether the merit is important to you or not.

However, the reality is the resolution and color is damn good right now with Dragon. Really good. I like all the things Red tackled and simplified (like IR performance).

When looking at the total feature set and performance of Epic Dragon there isn't much in the same neighborhood. Especially for the value.
 
Well, I'm about done my last beer: time to put on my Red PJ's , fluff up my pillow with the Dragon emblem, and cuddle up with my reddy bear, oops, sorry, teddy bear. See y'all when the dawn spreads her rosy fingers. ( :
 
Logan Smith said:
I was just trying to walk a fine line without pissing off the fanboys. Clearly, I failed...
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To paraphrase ol' AuH2O "Extremism (read: fanboism) in the defense of Dragon is not a vice."
 
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I'll stand with Logan.

This is really cool. But the reason people shoot Alexa is "film like skin tones". The DXO labs confirm what RED has always been strong on: technical specs. It could have 20 stops of dynamic range a 10k sensor and look like ass but blow away the DXO tests. By definition a technical test won't quantify the subjective choices of artists.
 
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