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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon Info and Data Sheets

I have a few questions from this.

I have heard a few times that "lowering ISO on Dragon doesn't have an impact on the colors" or to the sorts. This looks to act the same as MX, as in, you would want to shoot ISO 800 for outdoor to keep the highlights. Is that what I'm seeing? But Phil shoots everything 250, so that's making me confused there.

Also, why is the scarlet MAX FPS so low? This is taken from the specs page directly:
6K FF: 12 FPS (in Burst mode)
5K FF: 48 FPS
4K FF: 60 FPS
3K FF: 80 FPS
2K FF: 120 FPS
5K 2.4:1: 60 FPS
4K 2.4:1: 75 FPS
3K 2.4:1: 100 FPS
2K 2.4:1: 150 FPS

Is the format key chart based at 8:1 compression across the board?
 
Adam Montville said:
I have a few questions from this.

I have heard a few times that "lowering ISO on Dragon doesn't have an impact on the colors" or to the sorts. This looks to act the same as MX, as in, you would want to shoot ISO 800 for outdoor to keep the highlights. Is that what I'm seeing? But Phil shoots everything 250, so that's making me confused there.

Also, why is the scarlet MAX FPS so low? This is taken from the specs page directly:
6K FF: 12 FPS (in Burst mode)
5K FF: 48 FPS
4K FF: 60 FPS
3K FF: 80 FPS
2K FF: 120 FPS
5K 2.4:1: 60 FPS
4K 2.4:1: 75 FPS
3K 2.4:1: 100 FPS
2K 2.4:1: 150 FPS

Is the format key chart based at 8:1 compression across the board?
Click to expand...


I actually work at ISO 500 more than anything on Dragon, but float mostly in the realm of 250-1000. I never said that I work at ISO 250 all the time. Don't know where you got that.

Scarlet specs are in the most recent manual release that came out.

I'm working on a max REDCODE compression chart, but this info that I posted has nothing to do with REDCODE.


In terms of shooting outdoors and all that. Dragon has a considerable amount more freedom in terms of captured dynamic range and highlight protection. You can shoot with the methods you describe, but it's really all about your middle gray at the end of the day and what ISO you are choosing to shoot at.
 
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Thanks Phil. Great as always.
Shared!!!
Cheers from Brasil
 
Loved the large bright light/rug/stereo analogy for middle grey on the Dragon. This should have been reposted in a certain contentious thread running currently on REDuser. '-)
 
Phill I am confused. If its true that you use more pixels with regular glass but digital ana is more about the look than the resolution but I still want to squeeze as must of the sensor as possible, is "4K 5:4 equals 3840x3072 and unsqueezed you produce a 7680x3072 image with a 2.50:1 aspect ratio...: the maximum? So if you shot 6K 2:1 Anamorphic 2x, what then would you truly be utilizing of the sensor height width?

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/10/red-dragon-6k-elite-anamorphic-diamond-bros/

Theoretically, if any squeeze ratio glass were an option, what squeeze ratio would achieve the maximum height & width of the Dragon sensor in 6K?

Thanks for you time in advance!!
 
Elsie N said:
Loved the large bright light/rug/stereo analogy for middle grey on the Dragon. This should have been reposted in a certain contentious thread running currently on REDuser. '-)
Click to expand...

I just instructed at Reducation last week (for the first time!) and the number 1 thing I was asked to explain and help visualize was how ISO works with Red cameras (also other cameras) and I also included some Motion Picture Film logic in there as it's really relevant and works essentially the same. This is the very same analogy I used last week.


Lassiter Holmes said:
Phill I am confused. If its true that you use more pixels with regular glass but digital ana is more about the look than the resolution but I still want to squeeze as must of the sensor as possible, is "4K 5:4 equals 3840x3072 and unsqueezed you produce a 7680x3072 image with a 2.50:1 aspect ratio...: the maximum? So if you shot 6K 2:1 Anamorphic 2x, what then would you truly be utilizing of the sensor height width?

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/10/red-dragon-6k-elite-anamorphic-diamond-bros/

Theoretically, if any squeeze ratio glass were an option, what squeeze ratio would achieve the maximum height & width of the Dragon sensor in 6K?

Thanks for you time in advance!!
Click to expand...


If you want to shoot for the traditional 2X Anamorphic effect and utilize the maximum sensor resolution what you want to use is 6K 6:5 with Anamorphic 2X on. That yields a 3972x3160 squeezed image, unsqueezed you get 7584x3160 at a 2.40:1 aspect ratio. That's physically using the maximum height of the sensor.

I'm personally a 2X anamorphic fan. The 1.3X was essentially created to get 16x9 sensors to create a wide screen image (Red supports this as well in camera). There's some less popular odd duck anamorphic glass out there, 1.5x, 1.7x, and 1.9x. But in reality like "everybody" truly wants the 2X effect.
 
Phil Holland said:
I have a few more pages to do, but I'm actively on this now and minus making a pretty cover for the whole thing it's nearly done.
Click to expand...
So, you are going to put this into a book? You should consider doing a print-version, maybe limited or something. I would instantly buy one.
Your contribution to the community is outstanding and highly appreciated. Thank you.

When does RED finally try to hire you? ;)
 
I think I want a Dragon! I was gonna stick with the Epic-M BUT
Seems I gotta raise a little more money!
 
See, if we hired Phil, it would take out all the joy for him doing this stuff because it was his "job" :001_tt2:
 
Brent@RED said:
See, if we hired Phil, it would take out all the joy for him doing this stuff because it was his "job" :001_tt2:
Click to expand...
Please take good care of him, Brent, because his work is so helpful to all of us!
 
Tommaso Alvisi said:
He is undercover BOMB SQUAD.
Click to expand...

Not exactly, but I'm certainly one of the more visible Red advocates out there :)


Maik Müller said:
So, you are going to put this into a book? You should consider doing a print-version, maybe limited or something. I would instantly buy one.
Your contribution to the community is outstanding and highly appreciated. Thank you.

When does RED finally try to hire you? ;)
Click to expand...

It will likely end up in a PDF, but I can see it in a small book. It's mainly going to be a quick reference and shooters guide like I did before with Mysterium-X and that could be printed and tossed into a rental package. I can see doing a cool little print run. Might be worthwhile tossing an accurate color chart or at least a gray patch series in there for set reference perhaps.


Brent@RED said:
See, if we hired Phil, it would take out all the joy for him doing this stuff because it was his "job" :001_tt2:
Click to expand...

Heh. It's both my job and my passion. Gotta know what the tools can do. Also, good to show people the facts and good things about the system. I'm really happy with Dragon. More people will catch onto why that is.
 
Hi Phil,

the format key sheet you put together for the Dragon is awesome.

Although I'm so old tech, I'm still shooting with the MX sensor :)

I was wondering if anyone knows what are the dimensions and the diagonal in millimeters, of the MX sensor when shooting Epic 2:1 (5120 x 2560). I'd like to provide a VFX guy with as many useful infos for him to tackle some shots.

Thanks in advance.
Julien
 
Julien Deka said:
Hi Phil,

the format key sheet you put together for the Dragon is awesome.

Although I'm so old tech, I'm still shooting with the MX sensor :)

I was wondering if anyone knows what are the dimensions and the diagonal in millimeters, of the MX sensor when shooting Epic 2:1 (5120 x 2560). I'd like to provide a VFX guy with as many useful infos for him to tackle some shots.
Click to expand...

Mysterium-X @ 5K = 27.7x14.6 / diagonal = 31.31

Party on.
 
Maik Müller said:
So, you are going to put this into a book? You should consider doing a print-version, maybe limited or something. I would instantly buy one.
Your contribution to the community is outstanding and highly appreciated. Thank you.

When does RED finally try to hire you? ;)
Click to expand...
Frankly, I'm more worried Adobe may try to hire him after he fixed some CC stuff for them. '-)

Besides, RED may not can afford to pay him what he can command from big-budget movies.
 
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