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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Raven vs Scarlet-W

Sean Tierney said:
It seems like you answered your own question there at the end. I would stick with RAVEN in your case. It's been stated a few times that RAVEN was more geared toward arial/gimbal. I know you stated you dont own any PL glass, do you own canon? if so may be another reason to stick with your first choice.
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I have all Nikon lenses so this also doesn't make any difference regarding lenses (PL and EF). Most clients prefer PL lenses even for aerials.
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
Can someone clarify this?
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The raven is a specific cut from the sensor which doesn't correspond to some well known ratio. The scarlet-w has 2.40 or 2:1, but nothing in between. They just took a larger cut keeping the height they had. I guess it's specifically made for 2.40 but you can shoot a bit higher frames if you want.
 
Brian RUsso said:
wish the Raven had a PL version...
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Does an adapter work? I'm asking because I haven't checked in on that. I'm adapting to Mamiya 645 glass and see no problem with that.
 
Elsie N said:
Does an adapter work? I'm asking because I haven't checked in on that. I'm adapting to Mamiya 645 glass and see no problem with that.
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an adapter works for almost every zoom, primes wont because of the back element, but you can get a nice adapter, the cool thing is the positive lock on the ravens EF mount, and you can put on all those modern angeniuex zooms, even old cooke 18-100, almost anything.
the fact that someone is still asking for a pl mount on the raven is pretty silly, that's what the scarlet-w is for if you really need it.
im sticking with raven, and ill get an adapter incase i need to rent a cine zoom.
 
Elsie N said:
Does an adapter work? I'm asking because I haven't checked in on that. I'm adapting to Mamiya 645 glass and see no problem with that.
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Mamiya 645 works on Canon mount with an adaptor. Yes, Mamiya can do PL, NIKON, CANON, noproblem :)

i own most of them... as a hobby collecting :)
 
I'm conflicted. The raven seems perfect, only concern is the crop.

Does anyone one have a direct comparison between S35 and what the raven employs? I know of Hollands image but an A/B would be helpful to see how much of a crop I should expect.
 
BrandonChristensen said:
I'm conflicted. The raven seems perfect, only concern is the crop.

Does anyone one have a direct comparison between S35 and what the raven employs? I know of Hollands image but an A/B would be helpful to see how much of a crop I should expect.
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You mean like this:
phfx_REDDSMC2BRAINS_formatsAndFilm.jpg
 
For me, a big reason why I changed my order from Raven to Scarlet-W is we shoot in HD almost exclusively - and for that, Raven is only 4K, not 4.5K.

Add in interchangeable OLPFs and mounts, with ability to shoot 5KHD, and Scarlet-W was well worth the extra $5K for us.
 
It is a very interesting set of considerations. It feels like Scarlet W draws very close to Weapon Mg. And as 5K for 4K capture seems to be the sweet spot for TV work in terms of crisp clean picture and reasonable data, then Scarlet W is plenty. 8K will be cool, because it just is, and it is the new thing. So I have to say I wonder about the value of the 6K margin if one is not going the whole nine - and if the Scarlet W sort of ate the Mg's lunch a bit.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
and if the Scarlet W sort of ate the Mg's lunch a bit.
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I personally don't think so. Once you shoot 6K, it's hard to go back. Not just the Extra K, but the wider FOV. It makes a difference. And the extra high speed is also a major factor. As is the lower compression. And the 4444 Quicktimes. Remember, Scarlet-W is only 422.

To me, Weapon Magnesium is the new rental camera. With Scarlet-W a perfect B.

Weapon Carbon is much more expensive, and though it is better (of course)...for what my company does...we'd rarely need those extra lower compressions. AND...we've done the math....if we WERE to shoot at 6K 3:1 all day...or 5K 2:1 all day...the amount of extra $$$ we'd need to spend on MAGS, HARD DRIVES and DIT would add A LOT OF MONEY TO OUR SHOOT COSTS!

I shoot up to 8hrs of interviews a day. If we shot them at Carbon 6K 3:1 vs our usual 8:1, I've determined it could cost my clients an extra $3-5K per camera per day.

THAT'S A LOT.

KEEP THAT IN MIND.

On a $20K shoot, I can't imagine clients wanting to spend an extra $10K to shoot 3:1, especially considering how great Epic-D looks at 8:1 (and Weapon-M should be even cleaner).

AGAIN: CARBON IS AMAZING. But you need to PAY FOR THOSE LOWER COMPRESSIONS, with extra mags, extra hard drives, and extra DIT time on set.

Which is why I think over time Weapon Magnesium may become the STANDARD RENTAL. Ie the new Epic Dragon (which is where it's priced). IE it becomes the Amira or Mini in the ARRI world.

Whereas the Carbon becomes the XT.

IMHO.
 
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There is a market for all of the RED models and I think RED knows that. As is usually the case, the cost-benefit curve is usually flatter as the price goes up; you get a bit less for each dollar spent as you get to the very expensive end. But, for those who need that last little bit of performance, the price is usually worth it. For many of us, the Scarlet-W (or Raven) just represent so much value at the price point that it's hard to justify the next level.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I personally don't think so. Once you shoot 6K, it's hard to go back. Not just the Extra K, but the wider FOV. It makes a difference. And th extra high speed is also a major factor. As is 4444 Quicktimes. Remember, Scarlet-W is only 422.
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Reassuring as I am an Epic D owner migrating to Mg. Agree the 6K is great, and especially for the extra scaleability factor. Wish I had the dough to go to 8k but not in the cards ..... yet:)
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Reassuring as I am an Epic D owner migrating to Mg. Agree the 6K is great, and especially for the extra scaleability factor. Wish I had the dough to go to 8k but not in the cards ..... yet:)
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Agreed. I think 8K is going to be amazing. But again, data rates need to be factored in. If I shot interviews in 8K all day, that's a TON OF DATA and hard drives, DIT time and mags. That would need to be factored into budget.

But yes - 8K is a singularly unique and creative possibility.

I too...am very excited for it.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
There is a market for all of the RED models and I think RED knows that. As is usually the case, the cost-benefit curve is usually flatter as the price goes up; you get a bit less for each dollar spent as you get to the very expensive end. But, for those who need that last little bit of performance, the price is usually worth it. For many of us, the Scarlet-W (or Raven) just represent so much value at the price point that it's hard to justify the next level.
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I disagree to a point. 6k CF has slightly better specs than MG and LUTs and 4K prores is a lot more meaningful to me vs lower compression. 8k vista is different cuz unless your using entry level PL or still glass you go with Panavision or vantage. So all these 65 films will probably have 8k vistas involved now vs only 40 Alexa 65s or how ever many exist. I see 8k being highly regarded like Alexa 65 or 765 or imax kinds of jobs. Or ones that want to be 65 but can't afford it, the larger sensor sets it apart dramatically in my eyes from a 6k CF but maybe I'm wrong but I'd like to think it has the prestigious reputation of a 765 but digital
 
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