Raven vs Scarlet-W

[jordan levy]

I think you answered your own question. If you're fine with the fixed mount, lower res and FOV, then what other reasons are there?

I'm also debating the upgrade, but I'm having a hard time justifying it. 180-200 MB/s would have had me, but at the same 140MB/s as Raven, it's a tough sell.

same here, if it was higher data rate that might of swayed me, but for this as a personal or throw in b-cam for me, i want to keep the price down and use my own lenses.

 

[jordan levy]

Pretty sure this is incorrect. Although it's listed as 4K at 150fps, it's only 1728 vertical res. Scarlet is still 120fps at actual 2160, same as Raven.

no its right, both cameras do 120fps at 4.5k and both cameras do 150fps at 4k…the one thing i see is the raven tops out at 240fps at 2k and some how the scarlet says 300fps at 2k, but i thought they did al the same frame rates and compressions below 5k…well, im sure they are still updating all the numbers, i take them at their word, the new scarlet-w spec chart just seems to be much more detailed in information.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

I think you answered your own question. If you're fine with the fixed mount, lower res and FOV, then what other reasons are there?

I'm also debating the upgrade, but I'm having a hard time justifying it. 180-200 MB/s would have had me, but at the same 140MB/s as Raven, it's a tough sell.

I'm not a big fan of the crop on Raven as 24mm is my widest glass I own but I guess I can live with it. Will the lower resolution even be noticeable? I think compression ratios in the higher frame rates are marginally better

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

no its right, both cameras do 120fps at 4.5k and both cameras do 150fps at 4k…the one thing i see is the raven tops out at 240fps at 2k and some how the scarlet says 300fps at 2k, but i thought they did al the same frame rates and compressions below 5k…well, im sure they are still updating all the numbers, i take them at their word, the new scarlet-w spec chart just seems to be much more detailed in information.

Technically you may be right, but it depends what you consider actual 4K. Personally, I work in the 16:9 broadcast world, so 4K means 2160 vertical resolution. If so, then 1728p doesn't quality, which means both cameras can only do 4K at 120fps.

I can see both sides of the argument here, and I'm probably technically wrong.

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

I'm not a big fan of the crop on Raven as 24mm is my widest glass I own but I guess I can live with it. Will the lower resolution even be noticeable? I think compression ratios in the higher frame rates are marginally better

Maybe grab a Tokina 11-20? It's cheap, sharp, and will cover your entire wide range nicely at f2.8.

 

[Neil Dearman]

I own a Dragon and love it but its heavy, raven is for me love the price and the weight (did the math and a good run and gun rig will weigh around 8lbs) which is amazing sticking with the Raven for sure!!!

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

Technically you may be right, but it depends what you consider actual 4K. Personally, I work in the 16:9 broadcast world, so 4K means 2160 vertical resolution. If so, then 1728p doesn't quality, which means both cameras can only do 4K at 120fps.

I can see both sides of the argument here, and I'm probably technically wrong.

Looks like the raven shoots 120fps in a higher resolution am I wrong on this?

Scarlet-W (120fps 4.5K 4608 x 1944 13:1 RC) vs Raven (120fps 4.5K 4608 x 2160 15:1 RC)

 

[Roger Alexander]

I'll be sticking with the Raven, but I highly encourage everyone else to switch their orders to the Scarlet-W so the rest of us can get our Ravens faster in the queue! :yesnod:

 

[jordan levy]

I'll be sticking with the Raven, but I highly encourage everyone else to switch their orders to the Scarlet-W so the rest of us can get our Ravens faster in the queue! :yesnod:

haha! the only reason i see to go with the scarlet-w is if you are a current scarlet dragon owner and can get the big discount…which i hope happens to us new red reaven guys in a couple of years

 

[Kevin D'Haeze]

This is a little bit off-topic, but with the release of the Scarlet-W comes some new photos. Specifically, the configuration that mostly matches the Base I/O of the Raven package. It's been hard to see a "fully configured" photo of this package w/4.7 screen, handle, I/O and V-Lock battery. In looking over this new photo, it seems like it may be pretty "crowded" up top. Perhaps it's just the angle, but it seems like the 4.7" screen would be partially blocked by the handle, particularly since the 4.7 doesn't swivel. Has anyone seen any other alternate angles of this configuration to better gauge how this will work? I'm debating whether going with a 7" makes more sense to get it vertically higher away from the handle, as well as allow swiveling.

 

[sam karr]

This is a little bit off-topic, but with the release of the Scarlet-W comes some new photos. Specifically, the configuration that mostly matches the Base I/O of the Raven package. It's been hard to see a "fully configured" photo of this package w/4.7 screen, handle, I/O and V-Lock battery. In looking over this new photo, it seems like it may be pretty "crowded" up top. Perhaps it's just the angle, but it seems like the 4.7" screen would be partially blocked by the handle, particularly since the 4.7 doesn't swivel. Has anyone seen any other alternate angles of this configuration to better gauge how this will work? I'm debating whether going with a 7" makes more sense to get it vertically higher away from the handle, as well as allow swiveling.

I noticed that too and looked everywhere but no pic from behind with the monitor. It seems to work ok when the screen is almost horizontal but I guess it's more difficult when on a shoulder rig. It's annoying if we have to unscrew it everytime. I wonder if third parties side handles like my WC would fit on top with the monitor.

 

[Phil Holland]

This is a little bit off-topic, but with the release of the Scarlet-W comes some new photos. Specifically, the configuration that mostly matches the Base I/O of the Raven package. It's been hard to see a "fully configured" photo of this package w/4.7 screen, handle, I/O and V-Lock battery. In looking over this new photo, it seems like it may be pretty "crowded" up top. Perhaps it's just the angle, but it seems like the 4.7" screen would be partially blocked by the handle, particularly since the 4.7 doesn't swivel. Has anyone seen any other alternate angles of this configuration to better gauge how this will work? I'm debating whether going with a 7" makes more sense to get it vertically higher away from the handle, as well as allow swiveling.

Valid question and good thoughts. There's a lot of perspectives on it. With Weapon I've been using the bolt on DSMC2 LCD 7.0" Touch with and without the DSMC2 Top Handle. I go back and forth depending on what I'm doing. I've held in my hands the Raven with the 4.7" LCD Touch and that DSMC2 Universal Top Handle. Much like the DSMC2 Top Handle, the Universal is there in front of the display. At times not ideal, at times it doesn't really matter. Depends on how you work really. The good news is you can easily detach the Top Handles if you need them out of the way.

You can of course use the other LCD/EVF port on the brain. The 4.7" LCD doesn't articulate ideally for that, but I've used the 7.0" LCD there and it's been cool. The next step is moving the LCD away from the camera and that happens with the DSMC2 LEMO Adapters.

 

[sam karr]

Valid question and good thoughts. There's a lot of perspectives on it. With Weapon I've been using the bolt on DSMC2 LCD 7.0" Touch with and without the DSMC2 Top Handle. I go back and forth depending on what I'm doing. I've held in my hands the Raven with the 4.7" LCD Touch and that DSMC2 Universal Top Handle. Much like the DSMC2 Top Handle, the Universal is there in front of the display. At times not ideal, at times it doesn't really matter. Depends on how you work really. The good news is you can easily detach the Top Handles if you need them out of the way.

You can of course use the other LCD/EVF port on the brain. The 4.7" LCD doesn't articulate ideally for that, but I've used the 7.0" LCD there and it's been cool. The next step is moving the LCD away from the camera and that happens with the DSMC2 LEMO Adapters.

Do you think it's possible to use the outrigger handle + the 4.7 monitor on the Weapon/Scarlet-W?

 

[Phil Holland]

Do you think it's possible to use the outrigger handle + the 4.7 monitor on the Weapon/Scarlet-W?

100% yes. Between the DSMC2 Outrigger, Top Handles, and whenever this upcoming Side Handle shows up there's going to be a lot of ways to carry your camera.

Not to mention that these DSMC2 bodies I can palm pretty easily, I just don't recommend that when you have a full rig built up.

 

[Kevin D'Haeze]

100% yes. Between the DSMC2 Outrigger, Top Handles, and whenever this upcoming Side Handle shows up there's going to be a lot of ways to carry your camera.

Thanks for the input, Phil. I'm real interested to hear about any developments on a new DSMC2 side handle. Any word on when that info will come out? Sans that option, for what it's worth I'm thinking that a "best case" configuration with the 4.7" would be the Redvolt XL + outrigger handle. This would clear everything away from the monitor considerably.

 

[jordan levy]

one of the reasons im not getting the package, i want the side handle or outrigger, the other reason is obviously the 120gb card...

 

[sam karr]

100% yes. Between the DSMC2 Outrigger, Top Handles, and whenever this upcoming Side Handle shows up there's going to be a lot of ways to carry your camera.

Not to mention that these DSMC2 bodies I can palm pretty easily, I just don't recommend that when you have a full rig built up.

Great, thanx

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

haha! the only reason i see to go with the scarlet-w is if you are a current scarlet dragon owner and can get the big discount…which i hope happens to us new red reaven guys in a couple of years

To some of us, it's a big deal that we be able to rent PL glass for certain projects (or allow for maximum flexibility when we rent our cameras to productions). The Raven felt like a fairly boutique, owner-operator, gimbal camera. But this Scarlet-W feels like a real cinema camera, capable of using real cinema glass, anamorphic aspects, and a 3-perf Super35 gate. In my mind, that's well worth the $5K to upgrade.

BUT, it will take longer to save up for this one... I wonder how much Raven brains will re-sell for on the used market if I decided to step-stone it. Raven, then Scarlet-W.

 

[jordan levy]

To some of us, it's a big deal that we be able to rent PL glass for certain projects (or allow for maximum flexibility when we rent our cameras to productions). The Raven felt like a fairly boutique, owner-operator, gimbal camera. But this Scarlet-W feels like a real cinema camera, capable of using real cinema glass, anamorphic aspects, and a 3-perf Super35 gate. In my mind, that's well worth the $5K to upgrade.

BUT, it will take longer to save up for this one... I wonder how much Raven brains will re-sell for on the used market if I decided to step-stone it. Raven, then Scarlet-W.

yup, different things for different people, thats the beauty of it! for me if im renting pl glass then im renting a weapon along with it. for me this will be a extra camera i can through into a production with all my stuff, run and gun, vintage lenses ready to go OR to shoot some personal projects or no money tests or pilots, etc…the low price point and ease of use and compatibility with cheaper glass is where im at with it.

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

yup, different things for different people, thats the beauty of it! for me if im renting pl glass then im renting a weapon along with it. for me this will be a extra camera i can through into a production with all my stuff, run and gun, vintage lenses ready to go OR to shoot some personal projects or no money tests or pilots, etc…the low price point and ease of use and compatibility with cheaper glass is where im at with it.

Yeah I definitely see that. Just curious, what glass are you shooting on? I just finished my set of Zeiss ZE, but I'm already looking at some Leica R's haha