Origo - Lemo Warning

[ericyoung]

Here's a video showing the problem. http://viewfactor.net/downloads/bad_cable_connector.wmv

I used an Impero to simulate the red 4 pin connectors but its easy enough to see them on the camera, they are on the back and are labeled "AUX 12V". I had to sand down the pin on the connector to show you this demo, typically this problem happens very infrequently where the connectors can be plugged in the wrong way...

Hang on - the video simulates a problem with a worn external key on the plug or a worn socket, but from Stuart's description the problem is not that, it's that the plug sleeve with the red dot gets rotated 180 degrees relative to the insides of the plug and the pins, hence why it's only a problem with Lemos with even number pins.

The insides have an internal key which normally stops the sleeve rotating relative to the insides, but not using a wrench to hold the main body static while overtightening the collet nut can force the internal key round.

Both possibilities exist, but which is Stuart and Red talking about? Video from Red please!

 

[CVB]

Eric, we've seen that problem as well but it shows itself when we do our continuity/short testing with a little test box we made. If the index key is out 180 then we would see crosses. That has only came up once out of thousands of connectors on our side.

 

[Florian Stadler]

I just looked at my cables and I don't see a way to twist the sleeve itself 180 degrees. I agree with Curt's video that that would be the only way to insert the cable wrongly. I've used my Origo since last October on every shoot and haven't had a single issue.

 

[Guidofilippi]

I think that all know why there's a red dot on all LEMO connectors! Right?

If one can't understand or he/she doesn't take care... it's natural selection!

Distraction happens but its a personal fault.




Hey that would be cool but two red dots are more than enough!

I have always thought that the two red dots are too small and difficult to see at times... it would be great if Lemo could make them bigger, or find a better way to mark the correct way to connect them.
It once happened that my Bartech wouldn´t work... I was in the set and the AC called me to help her. I could hardly believe thas she had plugged it inverted 180º! It dindn´t turn: sha had simply forced it in! Fortunately the device simply didn´t work. It was very difficult to unplug the connector, but then we plugged it the right way and that was it.
Guido

 

[Steve Gal]

I have always thought that the two red dots are too small and difficult to see at times... it would be great if Lemo could make them bigger, or find a better way to mark the correct way to connect them.
It once happened that my Bartech wouldn´t work... I was in the set and the AC called me to help her. I could hardly believe thas she had plugged it inverted 180º! It dindn´t turn: sha had simply forced it in! Fortunately the device simply didn´t work. It was very difficult to unplug the connector, but then we plugged it the right way and that was it.
Guido

The bartech has a protection for reverse polarity but that only helps the first time. Once you do it again, then it will not work. Jim will fix the unit if you send it in the first time but the second time is at your expense and Jim the unit has not had this problem since you fixed the faulty Lemo but I am afraid that in the wrong hands it will happen again. Don't get me wrong, I love your product and I support it. i just wish this problem would be gone once and for all.

I have seen both problems happen that are being stated in this thread. The pins can spin 180 degrees inside the connector and the keyway can wear down allowing for 180 degree insertion. I have seen this on the microforce y-cable that connects to the heden motor. These are problems that us rental houses have been dealing with for years. I wish they could be fixed.

Also about the Red dots. they do fade. Some of these connectors they notch it as well. I don't see why this whole issue even has to be present at all. There is no red dot on the 4-pin xlr because it cannot and will not happen. the only way that connector will be wrong is if you physically wire it in reverse.

 

[Mitch Gross]

There is no cure for stupidity. It's easy to twart even the most advanced protective measures if you're cromagnon enough.

Fact is, these connectors are used in thousands of applications well outside this industry and the failure rate is very low. There are cheap no-name Chinese knockoff versions of these and all other connectors and some may not be up to par. I have no idea if RED or any 3rd party manufacturers are using such connectors and I in no means wish to cast aspersions. I'm just trying to say that there can be many reasons why NOT to blame Curt and in the end it could be some gorilla shoving the connector in the wrong way.

While we're on the subject, anyone wish the RED cables with right angle connectors came with a little Locktite on them? I find that the rear nuts are often a touch loose and can easily unscrew. Hand tightening can be enough, but I like to put a dab of medium Locktite on them to make them stay put but still be accessible should a repair be necessary.

 

[Steve Gal]

There is no cure for stupidity. It's easy to twart even the most advanced protective measures if you're cromagnon enough.

Fact is, these connectors are used in thousands of applications well outside this industry and the failure rate is very low. There are cheap no-name Chinese knockoff versions of these and all other connectors and some may not be up to par. I have no idea if RED or any 3rd party manufacturers are using such connectors and I in no means wish to cast aspersions. I'm just trying to say that there can be many reasons why NOT to blame Curt and in the end it could be some gorilla shoving the connector in the wrong way.

While we're on the subject, anyone wish the RED cables with right angle connectors came with a little Locktite on them? I find that the rear nuts are often a touch loose and can easily unscrew. Hand tightening can be enough, but I like to put a dab of medium Locktite on them to make them stay put but still be accessible should a repair be necessary.

Mitch, i agree with you. I have never had a problem with the connectors and I am definitely not blaming Curt or Bartech or Red but the reality is there are gorillas out there.

 

[Guidofilippi]

While we're on the subject, anyone wish the RED cables with right angle connectors came with a little Locktite on them? I find that the rear nuts are often a touch loose and can easily unscrew. Hand tightening can be enough, but I like to put a dab of medium Locktite on them to make them stay put but still be accessible should a repair be necessary.

That has arised more than once in the forum... and more than once spare nuts have been asked for as replacement for lost ones!

 

[Rich Schaefer]

Hang on - the video simulates a problem with a worn external key on the plug or a worn socket, but from Stuart's description the problem is not that, it's that the plug sleeve with the red dot gets rotated 180 degrees relative to the insides of the plug and the pins, hence why it's only a problem with Lemos with even number pins.

GOOD POINT!

I assume if the inside is twisted the red dots still align! This is the problem yes?

Where is Lemo on this?

 

[Peter Rollins]

And shame on Viewfactor for not alerting us! :cuss:

This is the part I do not understand. If Curt was aware of this problem for months with dozens of cameras being damaged, why didn't he tell us? That is a little shady. Even if this is a cable problem, These are viewfactor cables that he is selling, so he needs to be responsible for them.

Not to jump on Curt or question his product quality but i have seen him every year at NAB for the last 3 years and the electronics/motors/heads in his booth have never worked properly. Maybe he needs to do a little more testing on his stuff?

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I also find it hard to believe that so many cameras went down and Curt never mentioned it once. It seems like Red informed Curt but Curt didn't inform his customers. One thing that we all rely on is Red telling us the good news and the bad news. I remember Jim saying when Soderbergh had a heating issue the same day it happened on Che. You trust people that just tell you what is what. Curt and the other 3rd partys out there could learn a lesson from Red. All we need is the real info. This thread is a good example. Red had to tell us, not Curt.

And you're REALLY sure about this? Since your making this statement?

Edit: You have all the facts?

 

[Peter Rollins]

And you're REALLY sure about this? Since your making this statement?

Edit: You have all the facts?

I don't know what you are getting at Weirdcrew. Red came forward with this warning not Curt. Red also posted this Lemo problem weeks ago when they had no responsibility to do so. I didn't know anything about this until this post, have never heard anything from Curt, and I am a Origo Customer.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Eric, we've seen that problem as well but it shows itself when we do our continuity/short testing with a little test box we made. If the index key is out 180 then we would see crosses. That has only came up once out of thousands of connectors on our side.

I don't know what you are getting at Weirdcrew. Red came forward with this warning not Curt. Red also posted this Lemo problem weeks ago when they had no responsibility to do so. I didn't know anything about this until this post, have never heard anything from Curt, and I am a Origo Customer.

As Curt is saying above the quote from you. Their tests are showing otherwise. Why should they announce something they find not to be the case?

 

[Jarred Land]

As Curt is saying above the quote from you. Their tests are showing otherwise. Why should they announce something they find not to be the case?

Mmm.. i guess they don't see it as a problem then. We have seen dozens of cameras in a short period of time come into RED with Origos attached to them with bad cables and blown ports. If Curt's tests are showing problems with "only one in thousands " of tests then they must be selling Millions of Origos.

Again.. we don't know what Curt's policy is on reporting issues to his customers. We have a responsibility to report problems to ours.

This Origo cable problem keeps on happening, every week, with no resolve, and after we tell customers that we are aware about this problem, they keep asking me " Why didn't Curt tell us... ", followed by " why didn't you tell us? " . All I can do is fix that last one.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I just received an $800 bill from Red for repair of the power board. I used Origo serial number #20 a few times. I never forced the plug in. I have been dealing with and making connectors for 20 years. I was not aware there was a problem until I saw the bill after service of my camera.

I hope this is resolved quickly. Curt?

 

[Mark Toia]

Jarred,

Thanks.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Mmm.. i guess they don't see it as a problem then. We have seen dozens of cameras in a short period of time come into RED with Origos attached to them with bad cables and blown ports. If Curt's tests are showing problems with "only one in thousands " of tests then they must be selling Millions of Origos.

Again.. we don't know what Curt's policy is on reporting issues to his customers. We have a responsibility to report problems to ours.

This Origo cable problem keeps on happening, every week, with no resolve, and after we tell customers that we are aware about this problem, they keep asking me " Why didn't Curt tell us... ", followed by " why didn't you tell us? " . All I can do is fix that last one.

Jarred,

Perhaps to be more specific, at least from what I am reading, is that they have been unable to re-create the problem. This could make fixing it on their end tricky.

Also, please let Stuart know I am trying to reach him... Have made numerous attempts and while he seems to be posting here, I'm having no luck getting a response...

He know's what it's for.

Thanks!

 

[Stuart English]

Contact

Contact

Also, please let Stuart know I am trying to reach him... He know's what it's for.

I'll send you a note in a bit on that subject Jay...

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Just a thought: In addition to this 180 rotation, could it be that by twisting and bending the cable, inside the connector the wires get in contact and create a short circuit? Especiqlly so, if the -whatever you call it in English- the part that protects the connector from drag is loose.

Jarred, Curt, thanks for the warning and for sharing the info.

 

[Adrian Sims]

Alarming that a $99 part (Origo cable) could cause a $xx,xxx problem on a film shoot, what with a camera fried, delays in shipping, extra camera rental fees etc. etc. We are leaving ours on the shelf until this is sorted!