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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"numerically honest 4k", Sony backhanded slap at Red

I will say this, I do not see any practical advantage to the Sony F65 vs. the Red Epic. Think about that: Sony's latest and great "4K" camera competes head to head with RED's latest, shipping "4K" camera and it's a wash. That's just huge. That's why I've had $5K sittings in RED's bank account for coming up on a year now, and am willing today (please call, RED!) to spend the $58K to have an Epic-M shipped my way. The Epic lives up to its name.
 
Erich Ocean said:
Okay, looks like "David Gray" jumped the gun a little. The only 65mm-sized sensor out there suitable for motion picture use is the Phantom 65. Would have been cool though if Sony had a sensor too (and I can't wait for RED to ship their 645 sized sensor).
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Yeah maybe,it after all looks like it is a s35mm camera with a still little bit smaller sensor than that red epic has...
well its a concern actually,it would have been more logical for them to also increase their sensor size from 35 to 65mm as their name from f35 to f65. Housing twice the amount of pixels at that sensor size would be difficult and could lead to loss in dynamic range and latitude,i mean what would be the size of each pixel,2.7 micron?? that is what it seams........
well lets just wait and watch,hey by the way does anyone has a link to the f65 footage shown at NAB....
 
Erich Ocean said:
I will say this, I do not see any practical advantage to the Sony F65 vs. the Red Epic. Think about that: Sony's latest and great "4K" camera competes head to head with RED's latest, shipping "4K" camera and it's a wash. That's just huge. That's why I've had $5K sittings in RED's bank account for coming up on a year now, and am willing today (please call, RED!) to spend the $58K to have an Epic-M shipped my way. The Epic lives up to its name.
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Perhaps in your own application there are no advantages. However, the F65 is being designed as a Live 4K camera, capable of delivering real time 4k images, something the Epic is not, at least in its present incarnation. The Sony is also being designed to record directly to its proposed 1TB Sr Memory module, in multiple formats, and that card can be plugged directly into it's proposed SR replacement decks. Sony and Red are serving different markets and different purposes, albeit with some overlap at times. But just because you don't see those advantages for your own work doesn't mean they're not there for other types of work.
 
M Most said:
Perhaps in your own application there are no advantages.
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My bad, I had intended to qualify that to the narrow realm of "image quality". I too find the camera significant in other respects, but it does not appear to record better images at 4K today.
 
Erich Ocean said:
My bad, I had intended to qualify that to the narrow realm of "image quality". I too find the camera significant in other respects, but it does not appear to record better images at 4K today.
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It doesn't record anything today because it's not available, and won't be for some time ;-D..
 
Joe G. said:
The F65 promises "numerically accurate, numerically honest 4k" and the rep is blatantly trying to take a shot at Red in this introduction of the Sony F65.
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But... but... I thought we had been told many times that no-one NEEDS 4k...? :001_rolleyes:

Mike
 
So they're still about 10 months away? Hmmm....

I'm sure this is going to be a great camera but by the time it will be released RED DRAGON will be upon us (as well as all the software, color science, etc etc improvements RED just spits out over time). Currently and for some time RED has been making some great images that I suspect will stand up just fine to the F65. And then there is that flexibility thing that allows you to do so much with the RED cameras. To all the "numerically accurate numerically honest" talk I'd say LETS SEE THE TESTS!!!!

P.S. I love the comment "this camera doesn't try to reinvent the wheel" You guys can fill in your own translation, but I laughed when I heard that. :)
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
But... but... I thought we had been told many times that no-one NEEDS 4k...? :001_rolleyes:

Mike
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Well they are all programmed to say that "You don't really need 4k, 2k/1080p hd is enough",until the time that they themselves come up with a 4k camera and start calling themselves the first company with their "true" 4k camera, which red has been having for "4" years now.............. world is verrry funny
 
Ralph B. said:
So they're still about 10 months away? Hmmm....

I'm sure this is going to be a great camera but by the time it will be released RED DRAGON will be upon us (as well as all the software, color science, etc etc improvements RED just spits out over time). Currently and for some time RED has been making some great images that I suspect will stand up just fine to the F65. And then there is that flexibility thing that allows you to do so much with the RED cameras. To all the "numerically accurate numerically honest" talk I'd say LETS SEE THE TESTS!!!!

P.S. I love the comment "this camera doesn't try to reinvent the wheel" You guys can fill in your own translation, but I laughed when I heard that. :)
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Agreed. This is going to be an awesome camera -- and here's to hoping anyone using 1080p Sony cameras for feature films switches over to this one, so that the industry keeps moving forward with better image quality.

As others have noted, I don't think Red has too much to worry about. Even if they are ridiculously late beyond current Epic estimates of "end of summer" ... I'm guessing this Sony camera still won't be available (I bet it's not ready for "regular" pros to purchase until NAB next year). And even then -- Epic does "real 4k+" ... is smaller ... will likely be 1/3 the price ... and ... the list goes on. And this isnt' even considering the dragon upgrade.

Still, with all this said ... if he's attached to Sony -- wouldn't mind seeing George Lucas will shoot Star Wars Episode 7 on the F65 :P

Anthony
 
Erich Ocean said:
IMO The best thing about the F65 is its support for the IIF ACES standard, something I would love to see RED support as well.
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We do already support it in RCX.
ACES is still being developed and not locked down yet
so it's there for testing and feedback for those who are
able to use it.
 
Sony has gone from selling 1080/30p cameras for a quarter of a million dollars to selling 4K/72p cameras for under 100K. That's good news. I think we all know who we can thank for that.
 
Hey I used to get beautiful pictures out of my Sony 709 Digi beta with a P+S Technik Adapter and cine glass.

Who care about the sensor! The beautiful pictures come from the operator, not the sensor.

The only thing I'm annoyed about is my red is 78xx so I have to wait a long time for an EPIC X.
 
No problem with Sony's entrance into the market. We like it. 4K delivery is guaranteed. I'd only be worried if I were trying to sell a 2K or 1080P camera. The truth about what Sony actually has will come as soon as they release it. What is with 2K vertical and 8K horizontal? What does the OLPF do to the image with regards to aliasing?

I have no doubt that the F65 will be welcomed into the industry... we welcome it. Now comes price, recording options and size... and upgrade options. Finally... a validation of 4K and the proper capture resolution.

I'm just happy I never bought an F23 or F35.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
No problem with Sony's entrance into the market. We like it. 4K delivery is guaranteed. I'd only be worried if I were trying to sell a 2K or 1080P camera. The truth about what Sony actually has will come as soon as they release it. What is with 2K vertical and 8K horizontal? What does the OLPF do to the image with regards to aliasing?

I have no doubt that the F65 will be welcomed into the industry... we welcome it. Now comes price, recording options and size... and upgrade options. Finally... a validation of 4K and the proper capture resolution.

I'm just happy I never bought an F23 or F35.

Jim
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Exactly. The more they push 4k, the more valuable it makes everything shot on Red -- past and present. Beautiful!

Anthony
 
Imagine having shot your feature on 1080P...

Jim
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
this is why i personally dont understand camerons decision to shoot avatar 2 in 1080p...
but who am i :)
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I'm baffled by this too. I can't see any reason for it from a technical standpoint, but I'm open to being educated about it.
 
Who said he is shooting Avater 2 on 1080P? He just bought 50 EPICs.

Jim

Cüneyt Kaya said:
this is why i personally dont understand camerons decision to shoot avatar 2 in 1080p...
but who am i :)
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