New MacPro predictions? Hopes? Fears?

[Wayne Morellini]

Jeff, why don't they just do a backplane with everything on cards, everything peer to peer, to cut communications overhead. This s how I was designing my virtual hardware model, the controller overrides (the OS).

The processor card canbe seperate from a dedicated ports card (chipset like). In this the ports just come out the front and rear panel. Basically my system was designed to take thousands times more datarate. So thus system dies bit need to be restricted by existing PCI-e. One if the quick solutions is to convert to photonic linesbetwern the cards. Even long haul that is probably over 2.4 Tb/s pet lane, and I don't know his much shirt haul intra board. People are pkanning based on today, but don't know what is coming.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Excellent.

I think the laptop announcements are kind of along these lines...

I've reconsidered the RAM/GPU.
Don't care even if it is usable.

The adapter nonsense in a world relying on USB sticks and other standard USB peripherals is a a deal breaker. I'd gladly invest in a MBP but Cupertino had other plans and target market, and for the last few years systematically keeps throwing out essentials which many need and adding toys no one asked for.


.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Well, as critical as I've been here today about the 16GB RAM, I bit the bullet and ordered a maxed-out 15" in space gray. We'll see how it goes. I need a new MBP for iOS development work and couldn't get myself to go with one of the lesser variants. I waffled a bit on the 2TB SSD, but ultimately went for it. It's only money, I guess. If Apple drops a 32GB+ model this one will be for sale instantly. Looks like I snuck my order in while it was still 2~3 weeks delivery, site now says 3~4 weeks.

+1 maxed out 15 space gray here.... for iOS / macOS dev, and some R3D editing (but I mostly cut at low res / offline)... only change my machine every 3-4 years so makes sense for me to buy new Apple products soonish as their upgrade cycle is slowing down... looking forward to that touchBar thing, P3 screen and TB3...

 

[Jason Osterday]

I think Thursday's announcement started to paint the picture, with a clear buy-in to Thunderbolt and modular accessorizing. We saw the writing on the wall with the Mac Pro back in 2013 and it's dedication to 6 TB ports.

Macbooks account for 60-70% of annual Mac sales. Followed by iMac/Pro/Mini. I would assume iMac's/Mini's comprise at least 20% of that remaining pie. So it is very likely that Apple is looking to figure out how to merge the 1-5% of Pro sales into that 20-25%.

I would not be surprised to see a 5K Xeon Intel 2066 iMac Pro with 6 TB3 ports. The new chipset will likely allow easier BTO options, a Vega based dual GPU evolved from their non-traditional PCIe board architecture (MAYBE user swappable but doubt it) and eliminate the need for designing a new tube case with further thermal dynamics engineering. They'll ditch Fusion drives and go PCIe as well.

I can see a 6 Core, 16GB, 512GB sitting right around $3500. The tag line will read "Cost 15% less with 1.5X the power and you get a 5K Retina screen."

No matter how you slice it, all of the 8+ Core models will be cheaper than current nMP's. If you think about the performance gains of TB3 vs PCIe 3.0 x16 (40Gb vs 160), Apple is likely finding that Thunderbolt has matured enough to manage the majority of the market that needs additional PCI support. The Mac Pro proved it with everyone adopting external boxes. Now, the big picture is -- your Macbook has 4 ports and your iMac Pro has 6. Your setup is ambidextrous to either machine and as mobile or stationary as you want it to be.

The Mac Pro Tower tradtionally never officially supported dual full size GPU's, so this iteration is arguably more versatile. A $6000-7000 10/12 Core, 1/2TB SSD, 32/64GB, 8GB GPU variation would likely outsell all 8 and 12 Core nMP's combined, simply because high-end iMac customers wouldn't have to segue into a whole new product line.

 

[Drew Thomas]

Perhaps a glimmer of hope for us hold outs:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/10/28/new-mac-pro-said-to-arrive-next-month/

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

So...

Final Cut - screwed up
Compressor - screwed up
Shake - ditched
Color - ditched
Aperture - ditched

Upgradeable professional tower - ditched

17" MBP - ditched
Matte screen - ditched
USB standard slot - ditched
SD card slot - ditched
MagSafe - ditched

- More RAM > "reduces battery time"
- Battery > cannot replace easily
- "Pro" = thin at all cost, additional dangling peripherals, underpowered but sexy

While sitting on $200B.

Well at least there is some consistency.
- Piling up imaginary value (money)
- Screwing up real one (heritage, brand perception, user base)
- Self fluffery

"Touch of genius."
....Okay, so the term "Pro" is not the only one I interpret differently.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Hey I think FCPX is a streamlined screaming editor.

 

[Brody_B]

I think the laptop announcements are kind of along these lines...

Hahahaha. "No ports, at all, not even for power, just buy a new one when it dies." :smilielol5:

 

[jonathan murphy]

I think it's hilarious that people keep holding out for apple to take care of them.... then when they don't, they justify it in their head and stay with them anyway. Folks. I get it if you use fcpx. You are excluded from this rant. But if you use anything else there is no excuse. There are ways to get prores on pc. If you use davinci you can have a Mac mini in your network and export prores on PC. So please people. Give up on mac because they gave up on you. Quit talking yourself into buying things that don't fit your needs. It actually feeds the fire and supports the consumer movement. Windows is leaps and bounds better than it once was. It supports creatives. It supports pros. They are listening under the current leadership so reward them with your business. I own an iPhone, 2012 Mac Pro and Mac mini so not an apple hater. Just frustrated with people backing the company that doesn't back them. It's hurting the cause.

I will also say that I was initially interested in the new MacBook Pro but when I dug and found out the graphics capability.. and that it only has 16gb of RAM I no longer can support Apple professionally.

 

[Nicholas Croft]

I no longer can support Apple professionally.

The reality distortion field has collapsed. :wink5:

 

[Steve DiMaggio]

Hey I think FCPX is a streamlined screaming editor.

I am with you, I turn out a crazy amount of content for my field a week. I do in a week what most take 3 months to do, at 1080, Im at 4-8K

steve

 

[Mike Halper]

There are ways to get prores on pc. If you use davinci you can have a Mac mini in your network and export prores on PC. So please people.

Aside from the Resolve workaround (which doesn't get you out of the Mac world entirely since you still need a Mac to do it), the other ProRes encoders for Windows do not render verified ProTes files that meet Apple's ProRes spec 100%. Some apps will have trouble reading them, show different metadata for them, and/or give an error when opening them.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

An issue is how to pack the most power for the most cooling. Vertical stacked cards of rows of processors. In reality long cut wafer strips with solid block mount or liquid cooling baths. Apple could fit more in thebsame space that way on a Mac pro.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Wow all the bitching I see online is crazy... All the whiners complaining about the new port arrangements... Seriously? Apple just gave you 4 x TB3 ports on a notebook. Nobody else does that. Not notebook, not desktop. That's 4 of the most powerful, extendable, expandable ports you can get. Each one can be anything, in many cases they can be multiple anythings. $45 in cables (yeah, sorry, I know a lot to ask when you just spend $4K on a notebook) and it's suddenly a drop-in replacement for your last 2011~2015 MBP. I'm not even talking dongles/ adapters, but cables. And it's those TB3 to TB2 cables that are like $15 each. If you don't use TB now, and I'm seeing many people don't and are just whining about no old style USB A connectors, jeebus, that can be solved pretty darn simple. I don't know what to say. Really.

For serious users, the biggest let downs are the 16GB max RAM and the lack of a powerful GPU. Apple always gimps on the GPU and they have also been stuck with AMD for some time now. Honestly, I didn't expect anything other than what we got here. No, I'm not thrilled with it. I wanted an nVidia Pascal GPU. I think Apple really dropped the ball here, but understand they're still in contract with AMD and also insistent on the power profile and battery life of these systems. So, yeah, still a fail for us top tier power users, but not out of line or unexpected for Apple. The 16GB max RAM pisses me off though. I'm still going back and forth on whether or not to cancel my order. With 16GB, it will only fulfill half of the uses I want it for.

Lack of innovation... Seriously? What did you want it to be? I see a lot of people complaining about the Touch Bar and not having a touchscreen and pen support. Having those things is not innovation, that's just patronizing an existing market. Sorry, I own a couple notebooks with touch screens. They're cumbersome and generally shitty. If Apple could address all their issues and solve all the problems inherent to them, then I'd be for it. But right off, using a stylus on a 13"+ notebook is unergonomic and quirky. Folding the system flat helps a lot, but it is nowhere close to the elegance of the iPad Pro or similar tablet. Do I think they should have incorporated a multitouch screen? Yes. Just because there are times that I might just want to touch my screen. What about Pencil/ stylus support. Yes, but I'd be more interested it using it on that new big touchpad -- like a built in Wacom tablet.

Let's be honest here. Most true pro users I know. Those who drive their existing MBP's to the limit are not happy with this update. And while there's a lot of grumbling about this or that and the lack of innovation or whatever. Fact is, if this thing had a GTX 1070m or better GPU with 4GB and 32GB as an option, with all other aspects remaining the same, all you complainers would be falling over each other trying to buy one. And likewise, I would have ordered it instantly instead of begrudgingly placing my half-serious order just as the delivery window slipped from 2-3 weeks to 3-4 weeks...

That 460 4GB GPU actually has crazy throughput and direct pixel pushing abilities. Driving dual 5K displays plus the integrated screen at 2D and for GUI tasks is not going to be an issue. Where it's going to choke is 3D poly/point processing and the texture pipes are weak. In a nutshell, it's going to be great for Photoshop, Illustrator, GUI, all the 2D stuff, FCPX/ Premiere... It's going to suck for games, VR, 3DCG and serious OpenCL/OpenGL compute and render tasks.

...man, I'm still pissed about the 16GB memory limit. And Phil Schiller's response about power consumption for 32GB is almost like he and his cohorts at Apple dropped their pants and mooned me. All while Tim stood to the side and laughed while saying "you're still going to buy it anyway." Because I probably am. I need a new iOS development system and it has to go with me to client locations. So now I'm kicking myself for selling my 2012 rMBP that has served that purpose for over 4 years just fine. Maybe I cancel my order and pick up a used 2013 or 2014 MBP off ebay and wait for the next spec bump to see what happens. I'm not going to expect a better GPU in the next update. Or only marginally better to still fit within their same confines. But Kaby Lake really should bring 32GB memory support along with LVDDR4 RAM at 2400+MHz and we'll see higher density / lower cost chips released in the next few months. Unfortunately, in Apple terms, that's 8 to 12 months away from being in a new MBP update.

Grumble, grumble... It's like here's your 4 x TB3 ports, all the I/O ability you have been begging for. And then some. Oh, and this is what we decided for the RAM and GPU... So suck it. 'Cuz, you know, it works just fine for like 90% of our customers and we can sell those GPUs integrated for a 600% mark-up.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Apple just gave you 4 x TB3 ports on a notebook. Nobody else does that.

Yes, others don't share same interest from TB and less prioritize sexyness and more usability.

That's 4 of the most powerful, extendable, expandable ports you can get.

Because you really need 4 of those instead of the ability to connect something standard on the planet without fiddling with an adapter. Like the rest of the world not paying $3K for a fashion statement notebook.

2x TB3 and 2x USB3 would still be very powerful and expandable enough to 99.9% of users but practical as well, though Ive would have more trouble with product design, management less interest and marketing department less material for painting the illusion of added benefit by reduction of product thickness. Because last model was really too thick for pros and the first thing everyone really wanted was to use adapters for everything.

"I have the fastest ports you know, 4 x 40 Gb/s (5GB/s)".
"Good for you, here's this 100MB/s USB 3.0 disk with master files/for delivery/for backup."
"Ok, let me dig out that adapter and clear the table first for these cables to connect it to this simplistic elegant solution which just works ....aha here it is, TB3 to USB 3.0....oh wait...it's broken".

If you don't use TB now, and I'm seeing many people don't and are just whining about no old style USB A connectors, jeebus, that can be solved pretty darn simple.

Yes, it's solved pretty simply by a) simply adding something else so your $3K notebook is actually usable outside of Cupertino bubble and b) simply making an adapter circus for the slightest need to transfer files from/to USB stick or disk, let alone connect to anything else, from a device whose main purpose is to make your life more practical.

Which doesn't make much difference if you are sitting behind the desk and it's glued to the table with adapters branching 90% of the time but does when it moves around and goes through different situations.

...man, I'm still pissed about the 16GB memory limit. And Phil Schiller's response about power consumption for 32GB is almost like he and his cohorts at Apple dropped their pants and mooned me. All while Tim stood to the side and laughed while saying "you're still going to buy it anyway."

Grumble, grumble... It's like here's your 4 x TB3 ports, all the I/O ability you have been begging for. And then some. Oh, and this is what we decided for the RAM and GPU... So suck it. 'Cuz, you know, it works just fine for like 90% of our customers and we can sell those GPUs integrated for a 600% mark-up.

You are just whining. Don't know what to say really.
Your issues are irrelevant. Mine are more important.

 

[jonathan murphy]

.

...man, I'm still pissed about the 16GB memory limit. And Phil Schiller's response about power consumption for 32GB is almost like he and his cohorts at Apple dropped their pants and mooned me. All while Tim stood to the side and laughed while saying "you're still going to buy it anyway." Because I probably am. I need a new iOS development system and it has to go with me to client locations. So now I'm kicking myself for selling my 2012 rMBP that has served that purpose for over 4 years just fine. Maybe I cancel my order and pick up a used 2013 or 2014 MBP off ebay and wait for the next spec bump to see what happens. I'm not going to expect a better GPU in the next update. Or only marginally better to still fit within their same confines. But Kaby Lake really should bring 32GB memory support along with LVDDR4 RAM at 2400+MHz and we'll see higher density / lower cost chips released in the next few months. Unfortunately, in Apple terms, that's 8 to 12 months away from being in a new MBP update.

Grumble, grumble... It's like here's your 4 x TB3 ports, all the I/O ability you have been begging for. And then some. Oh, and this is what we decided for the RAM and GPU... So suck it. 'Cuz, you know, it works just fine for like 90% of our customers and we can sell those GPUs integrated for a 600% mark-up.

Then sbow your pissed Jeff and quit supporting them. Show your pissed with your pocket book. I respect everything you have to say on here and mean no disrespect. Apple has one gimp leg in the pro door (TB3 which I love) and one club foot in the consumer door. Only way to get them to change is by not supporting them until you get something that works well for what you need. On a wide scale that's the only way they get the message.

 

[FrankMcPartland]

Jeff: I agree with you -- However, I am still hoping that within 4 months Apple will ship a Kaby Lake MBP that will offer better specs (like 32GB )... Wishful thinking...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Wow all the bitching I see online is crazy... All the whiners complaining about the new port arrangements... Seriously? Apple just gave you 4 x TB3 ports on a notebook. Nobody else does that. Not notebook, not desktop. That's 4 of the most powerful, extendable, expandable ports you can get. Each one can be anything, in many cases they can be multiple anythings. $45 in cables (yeah, sorry, I know a lot to ask when you just spend $4K on a notebook) and it's suddenly a drop-in replacement for your last 2011~2015 MBP. I'm not even talking dongles/ adapters, but cables. And it's those TB3 to TB2 cables that are like $15 each. If you don't use TB now, and I'm seeing many people don't and are just whining about no old style USB A connectors, jeebus, that can be solved pretty darn simple. I don't know what to say. Really.

For serious users, the biggest let downs are the 16GB max RAM and the lack of a powerful GPU. Apple always gimps on the GPU and they have also been stuck with AMD for some time now. Honestly, I didn't expect anything other than what we got here. No, I'm not thrilled with it. I wanted an nVidia Pascal GPU. I think Apple really dropped the ball here, but understand they're still in contract with AMD and also insistent on the power profile and battery life of these systems. So, yeah, still a fail for us top tier power users, but not out of line or unexpected for Apple. The 16GB max RAM pisses me off though. I'm still going back and forth on whether or not to cancel my order. With 16GB, it will only fulfill half of the uses I want it for.

Lack of innovation... Seriously? What did you want it to be? I see a lot of people complaining about the Touch Bar and not having a touchscreen and pen support. Having those things is not innovation, that's just patronizing an existing market. Sorry, I own a couple notebooks with touch screens. They're cumbersome and generally shitty. If Apple could address all their issues and solve all the problems inherent to them, then I'd be for it. But right off, using a stylus on a 13"+ notebook is unergonomic and quirky. Folding the system flat helps a lot, but it is nowhere close to the elegance of the iPad Pro or similar tablet. Do I think they should have incorporated a multitouch screen? Yes. Just because there are times that I might just want to touch my screen. What about Pencil/ stylus support. Yes, but I'd be more interested it using it on that new big touchpad -- like a built in Wacom tablet.

Let's be honest here. Most true pro users I know. Those who drive their existing MBP's to the limit are not happy with this update. And while there's a lot of grumbling about this or that and the lack of innovation or whatever. Fact is, if this thing had a GTX 1070m or better GPU with 4GB and 32GB as an option, with all other aspects remaining the same, all you complainers would be falling over each other trying to buy one. And likewise, I would have ordered it instantly instead of begrudgingly placing my half-serious order just as the delivery window slipped from 2-3 weeks to 3-4 weeks...

That 460 4GB GPU actually has crazy throughput and direct pixel pushing abilities. Driving dual 5K displays plus the integrated screen at 2D and for GUI tasks is not going to be an issue. Where it's going to choke is 3D poly/point processing and the texture pipes are weak. In a nutshell, it's going to be great for Photoshop, Illustrator, GUI, all the 2D stuff, FCPX/ Premiere... It's going to suck for games, VR, 3DCG and serious OpenCL/OpenGL compute and render tasks.

...man, I'm still pissed about the 16GB memory limit. And Phil Schiller's response about power consumption for 32GB is almost like he and his cohorts at Apple dropped their pants and mooned me. All while Tim stood to the side and laughed while saying "you're still going to buy it anyway." Because I probably am. I need a new iOS development system and it has to go with me to client locations. So now I'm kicking myself for selling my 2012 rMBP that has served that purpose for over 4 years just fine. Maybe I cancel my order and pick up a used 2013 or 2014 MBP off ebay and wait for the next spec bump to see what happens. I'm not going to expect a better GPU in the next update. Or only marginally better to still fit within their same confines. But Kaby Lake really should bring 32GB memory support along with LVDDR4 RAM at 2400+MHz and we'll see higher density / lower cost chips released in the next few months. Unfortunately, in Apple terms, that's 8 to 12 months away from being in a new MBP update.

Grumble, grumble... It's like here's your 4 x TB3 ports, all the I/O ability you have been begging for. And then some. Oh, and this is what we decided for the RAM and GPU... So suck it. 'Cuz, you know, it works just fine for like 90% of our customers and we can sell those GPUs integrated for a 600% mark-up.

What people really want in the top if the line is something like the Razer.

Maybe apple will make the Pro laptop pocket size eventually?

 

[Mike Halper]

Because you really need 4 of those instead of the ability to connect something standard on the planet without fiddling with an adapter. Like the rest of the world not paying $3K for a fashion statement notebook.

2x TB3 and 2x USB3 would still be very powerful and expandable enough to 99.9% of users but practical as well, though Ive would have more trouble with product design, management less interest and marketing department less material for painting the illusion of added benefit by reduction of product thickness. Because last model was really too thick for pros and the first thing everyone really wanted was to use adapters for everything.

"I have the fastest ports you know, 4 x 40 Gb/s (5GB/s)".
"Good for you, here's this 100MB/s USB 3.0 disk with master files/for delivery/for backup."
"Ok, let me dig out that adapter and clear the table first for these cables to connect it to this simplistic elegant solution which just works ....aha here it is, TB3 to USB 3.0....oh wait...it's broken".



Yes, it's solved pretty simply by a) simply adding something else so your $3K notebook is actually usable outside of Cupertino bubble and b) simply making an adapter circus for the slightest need to transfer files from/to USB stick or disk, let alone connect to anything else, from a device whose main purpose is to make your life more practical.

These adapters aren't going to add any more cable clutter to the mix than if the MBP had those standard connectors, so it's not a very good argument. I'd rather have those 4 TB3 ports and have at least the option to connect more faster TB3 devices than not have that option. You can also connect 4 TB3 docks and have a ton of USB 3.1 ports, more than you could if you had only 2 USB3/3.1 ports and 2 TB3 ports.

Apple did nothing to restrict the MBP in making it thinner. It's not slower, you can't do anything less than you could with the previous MBP. Making it thinner was simply a by-product of removing those standard ports. If you look at the 2012-2015 MBP you'll see that it's the USB and HDMI ports that were making the MBP as thick as it was. As soon as they removed those (and put the new keyboard in, which I've actually come to like a lot) it became thinner. Prior to the 2012 MBP it was the CD/DVD drive and Ethernet port making it as thick as it was. I don't think Apple is saying, let's remove this port from the computer and make the consumer figure out a solution. Apple has always been among the first companies to realize when a computer feature has lived beyond it's full usefulness, while at the same time providing a solution for backwards compatibility. Floppy drives, optical drives, mechanical hard drives, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, DVI ports, and now Type A USB ports. Apple has always pushed the new tech forward and all the other manufacturers follow suit, and pretty soon consumers realize it was the best move to begin with after all.

Would most of us here have preferred an option for 32GB RAM? Sure. But looking at it from Apple's perspective, if they give an option of 32GB of RAM and the consumer picks that and finds their computer gets 7 hours of battery life instead of 10 hours, then Apple has trouble. Most consumers would miss the fine print somewhere that the 32GB RAM option reduces the battery life. Sure, most of us here wouldn't mind that, but 99% of the people buying a MacBook Pro would rather have longer battery life and don't need 32GB RAM. There could also be heat issues created by the 32GB RAM which would cause more throttling of the CPU and/or GPU and could make the 32GB RAM benefits moot. That is all possible.

The only real negative I see is the GPU. However, by the time you add a mobile version of a Pascal GPU into the MBP it would not have near the performance of the desktop version of that GPU. Apple has never put a desktop class GPU in the MBP. I wouldn't expect them to do it now. So if it were a mobile Pascal GPU in the new MBP, it may not see that much more performance than the Radeon Pro 460. Sure the Nvidia would maybe have been faster and it would have been great, but I don't think it's anything that should be expected at this time. The mobile Pascal GPU's aren't even available yet, and everyone keeps mentioning the Razor. The currently available one is a GTX 1060, not the 1080. You can't even buy the new 1080 version yet so until they are shipping it's basically vaporware.

Bottom line, this is a mobile computer and it can accomplish a lot and is more than enough for 99% of the people who will buy one. I don't think we can expect Apple to cater to us 1% of consumers with every product release.

 

[Dermot Shane]

Aside from the Resolve workaround (which doesn't get you out of the Mac world entirely since you still need a Mac to do it), the other ProRes encoders for Windows do not render verified ProTes files that meet Apple's ProRes spec 100%. Some apps will have trouble reading them, show different metadata for them, and/or give an error when opening them.

i call mis-information on this one, Nucoda and Scratch both deliver verified ProRes files that meet Apple's ProRes spec 100%, on windoze and have for years already.. really it's 2016 now.... wakeup sunshine!