New MacPro predictions? Hopes? Fears?

[jonathan murphy]

It's this simple. Support companies that support you.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Jeff, if I remember well we were waiting for the TB3 to have support for external GPUs... Does this new Sierra OS with TB3 combo allows new MBP to get an external GPU?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

These adapters aren't going to add any more cable clutter to the mix than if the MBP had those standard connectors

Yes, those are more optimized to screw up your port completely according to physics, when force, angle and distance meet at the $3K device's edge. And if Murphy joins them it will be exactly during offload or backup.

I have no doubts financial department already has estimates on port repair income.

I'd rather have those 4 TB3 ports and have at least the option to connect more faster TB3 devices than not have that option.

I'd also rather have the option than not have the option.

You can also connect 4 TB3 docks and have a ton of USB 3.1 ports, more than you could if you had only 2 USB3/3.1 ports and 2 TB3 ports.

That is true and definitely an option but in my case not likely, as I'm not buying more crap and pampering it everywhere just to make my $3K pro device usable.

Not really my cup of tea, plus I see some discrepancy with "green friendly" company policy so call BS on that one.

If you look at the 2012-2015 MBP you'll see that it's the USB and HDMI ports that were making the MBP as thick as it was. As soon as they removed those (and put the new keyboard in, which I've actually come to like a lot) it became thinner.

Previous retina was already thin with USB and HDMI. With this they stuck it to everyone frequently using an SD card, USB devices and HDMI and stuck it to themselves in thermal management department. Over a feature no one asked for. Pure Genius.

Apple has always pushed the new tech forward and all the other manufacturers follow suit, and pretty soon consumers realize it was the best move to begin with after all.

Like that umbrella holder desktop for example.
I see that turned out nicely.

Would most of us here have preferred an option for 32GB RAM? Sure. But looking at it from Apple's perspective, if they give an option of 32GB of RAM and the consumer picks that and finds their computer gets 7 hours of battery life instead of 10 hours, then Apple has trouble.

Yes, that is unquestionable. Their targeted market needs long battery time for online seminars, courses, movies, tv shows, chat, facetime, itunes, youtube and facebank.

Though the product branding and marketing is a hook and misleading for many and being a cause of many negative emotions on the first date between expectations and reality.

Most consumers would miss the fine print somewhere that the 32GB RAM option reduces the battery life. Sure, most of us here wouldn't mind that, but 99% of the people buying a MacBook Pro would rather have longer battery life and don't need 32GB RAM.

Then you design and offer 16 and 32 GB option. Or offer two hardware routes for different power management priorities. Battery time/Performance

If you write "Pro"on your product, have brand known for multimedia content creation tools, care one bit about a user base and have two hundred billion dollars.

There could also be heat issues created by the 32GB RAM which would cause more throttling of the CPU and/or GPU and could make the 32GB RAM benefits moot.

Which is why you don't make a pro aimed computing machine thinner than thin.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I just wish people who don't like Apple and/or use their products simply STFU.

It's so tiresome.

I can't remember the last time I went into a forum and discussed at length everything I thought was wrong about a product I didn't own or was about to purchase. And the reason I can't remember it, is because it never happened.

I have no clue what it would actually take for it to happen. It's nice to not have issues like that I guess.

I know it'll pass, but it it won't be soon enough.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Guys I cant get the rant regarding USB3 ports... There are so many CABLES with USB-C to USB3, 2, 3 Btype etc... Where is the issue? Why you look for adapters to use the old cables? Just buy a new cable...

 

[DJ Meyer]

I just wish people who don't like Apple and/or use their products simply STFU.

It's so tiresome.

I can't remember the last time I went into a forum and discussed at length everything I thought was wrong about a product I didn't own or was about to purchase. And the reason I can't remember it, is because it never happened.

I have no clue what it would actually take for it to happen. It's nice to not have issues like that I guess.

I know it'll pass, but it it won't be soon enough.

It's probably mostly just disappointment. A lot of lifelong Mac using creative pros have an emotional attachment to the platform. The fact that Apple is abandoning that market causes anxiety for them. Apple isn't helping matters either with stringing them along with half assed updates to their products. You'd hear a lot less angst if they'd just put out a press release stating they were ceding that market.

 

[Mike Halper]

i call mis-information on this one, Nucoda and Scratch both deliver verified ProRes files that meet Apple's ProRes spec 100%, on windoze and have for years already.. really it's 2016 now.... wakeup sunshine!

2 apps out of many apps doesn't mean there's proper ProRes support on Windows. It doesn't exist in Premiere Pro or Avid, which are 2 of the biggest apps in this industry, among many many others. How many people actually use Nucoda and Scratch anyway?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

So if Apple has ceded the pro market, why are MacBooks pros by far the most common laptops onset and used in so much of the post environment,

Because
a) of vision and philosophy of its original leadership, which lead to overall user experience, reliability and toolset pros needed, could rely upon and grew accustomed to
b) Microsoft had different philosophy with a wider reach but with over-stuffed & over complicated system for many, with a lot of variables which choke creative workflow and introduce liabilities on set
c) Apart from special models designed for specific markets (Thinkpads, Toughbooks, Protege, etc), Windows based laptops were mostly plastic squeaky crap void of any elegance, aesthetic and durability
d) Computer/software connection
e) Apple cared more about the screen and image quality and PC makers not that much
f) Appearance, coolness factor
g) Marketing effect
h) Final Cut and its platform (original one) & Apple-supported professional tools
i) Not being based on Windows


(I'd say)

 

[Mike Halper]

Yes, those are more optimized to screw up your port completely according to physics, when force, angle and distance meet at the $3K device's edge. And if Murphy joins them it will be exactly during offload or backup.

I have no doubts financial department already has estimates on port repair income.

Seriously? If it's that big of a deal get this instead. It's not that much longer to add onto your cable. Or get a new cable that has USB-C on the end.

Previous retina was already thin with USB and HDMI. With this they stuck it to everyone frequently using an SD card, USB devices and HDMI and stuck it to themselves in thermal management department. Over a feature no one asked for. Pure Genius.

I doubt there's any negative change to thermal dynamics. In fact being that the 2 USB-C ports on either side of the machine takes less space than was used up on previous generations there's probably more intake and better thermal dynamics on the new MBP than the old one since there's less space being taken up inside the machine by those ports and the circuit board.

Like that umbrella holder desktop for example. I see that turned out nicely.

Different topic. I mentioned only things that Apple removed from their computers that people freaked out about. If you want to talk about the Mac Pro, well there are a number of manufacturers now copying that style in one way or another. There are also computer manufacturers trying to make even smaller powerful computers as well.

Though the product branding and marketing is a hook and misleading for many and being a cause of many negative emotions on the first date between expectations and reality.

Are you referring to "MacBook Pro"? What else are they supposed to call it? Apple has always had "MacBook" and "MacBook Pro". Yes, they had the "MacBook Air" for several years, but that was clearly a transition model until they could get the entire line to be solid state and slim in size for them to be able to ditch the Air like they've done now. This new laptop is clearly the pro version of their different laptop computers, so I don't know what else is to be expected. And Apple has never had the most powerful laptop on the market, so I don't see why there's so much expectation that this should be any different.

Then you design and offer 16 and 32 GB option. Or offer two hardware routes for different power management priorities. Battery time/Performance

Apple would have to see that there's enough market potential for creating a whole different model, form factor, etc. Clearly there isn't a market for it. Again, those that would want that kind of power in a portable computer probably constitutes 1% of consumers.

If you write "Pro"on your product, have brand known for multimedia content creation tools, care one bit about a user base and have two hundred billion dollars.

Just because Apple has the money to spend on R&D, doesn't mean they should do it. If it's not going to be profitable enough then how could that be expected? Apple answers to its shareholders and not the consumers in those regards.

Which is why you don't make a pro aimed computing machine thinner than thin.

The MacBook Pro is a fully capable machine. It seems people are upset because they may not be able to playback 8K Red files or render in Resolve with Neat Video noise reduction. Seriously, if that's what you need a computer for, you should be using a desktop. There are plenty of ways you can get a desktop computer on a set that can do that. I use a 2015 MacBook Pro on set all the time and have had no issues handling Red or Alexa files for nearly everything I need to be able to do on set. If I do need more I bring a desktop computer. I think the notion that you should be able to do everything on a laptop is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Mike Halper]

It's probably mostly just disappointment. A lot of lifelong Mac using creative pros have an emotional attachment to the platform. The fact that Apple is abandoning that market causes anxiety for them. Apple isn't helping matters either with stringing them along with half assed updates to their products. You'd hear a lot less angst if they'd just put out a press release stating they were ceding that market.

I don't think Apple is abandoning the market. You can see from the new FCPX update. All the new features are for pros. On the new MBP, TB3 is for pros. The Touch Bar has a lot of pro use capabilities. The screen quality (P3, wide gamut) is for pros. Apple is adapting to the market as the market is changing. A lot of people just aren't willing to adapt with it. There's very little that you won't be able to accomplish with the MBP. If you need whatever it can't do or if you need it to be faster then go get a faster portable computer that doesn't have the same build quality (or MacOS), or get a desktop computer.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

(snip) I would say there's less need for laptops overall, with phones/tablets as capable as they are today, if anything Apple is ceding laptop sales to phone and tablet sales, not to other laptops brands.

I can see the rationale for Apple to streamline their laptop offerings into one line rather than supporting/marketing MB Air, MB and MBP simultaneously. In that scenario, there would be a premium on creating one laptop form factor to appeal to the market between tablets/phones and desktop/server. A decent chunk of that market segment might be easily seduced by thinner with long battery life. No, that has nothing to do with "pro".

I'd like to think that Apple's next move is to offer a combo iPad Pro - touchscreen with detachable/foldable keyboard to supersede the MBA/MB laptops. Then make a serious pro laptop worthy of the name. First, make it thicker and heavier, within reason for a portable unit, then:

1) Put in a decent sized battery and improve cooling metrics
2) Give me lots of ports; 4x USB-C/TB3, 2x USB-A 3/2, HDMI, Ethernet, mag safe, audio I/O, SD card slot, Lightning - versatility on the road is gold
3) Offer 64GB of RAM, 32 standard
4) Robust support for eGPUs in external chassis (primarily for nVidia GPUs for CUDA cores)
5) UHD screen rez, should be a no-brainer for the company that pushed pixel density with the Retina displays

Per recent trajectory, Apple may have little interest in the niche market that needs more muscle than a buffed up consumer item where "pro" is simply marketing-speak. For RedUsers who need a portable AND powerful laptop, the speciality builds from Razor/XPS/etc are the obvious alternative - no OS X of course. Yes they are bulkier and battery life may be short when asking a lot of them. That said, after pricing out the newest MBP, they're only marginally more expensive...

Cheers - #19

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Why not use a Mac for editing and coloring, and a cheap shit PC for rendering? Isn't there some sort of simple process whereby you can send your final cut to a separate box for rendering from R3D to DCP or whatever?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Why not use a Mac for editing and coloring, and a cheap shit PC for rendering? Isn't there some sort of simple process whereby you can send your final cut to a separate box for rendering from R3D to DCP or whatever?

Simple answer to that is no, there is no such way and I think that status will not change any time soon. Sure a few programs let you network render or jump from one platform to the other but it's very rare that it would be done simply.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Seriously? If it's that big of a deal get this instead. It's not that much longer to add onto your cable. Or get a new cable that has USB-C on the end.

Sorry but you don't get it. We are running in circles. It's additional nuisance and liability. x4. For $3K. Adapters loose connection and crap out. That's two more connecting surfaces and inner cabling for the same port. Times four.
One of main points of using Apple products was avoiding nuisance and issues and now one is supposed to pay premium for a product which adds nuisance and liabilities.
Zero sense. (To me).

I could live with new 4GB GPU and 16GB. Although competition offers 32 GB and Pascal. I could live with Hdmi adapter and even SD card reader for my stills camera. No drama. I don't need the fastest notebook. I'd enjoy the new keyboard, the one from 12"MB feels great. New touch bar is very welcome. But with this USB devices adapter nonsense throwing $3K on the gigantic pile who's decision makers make my life more difficult and frustrating instead of easier and enjoyable...just doesn't make sense to me. That way I'm feeding the animal which keeps on biting me and paying more to bend over.

So maybe I'll just have to tolerate that shitty chiclet keyboard, borderline usability in UHD projects and get a used retina MBP for Prores transcoding, casual usage and some pro apps I need on a Mac. It's still a very good computer. The unintended compromise which is kind of sad knowing what Apple used to be and could be today if some priorities were different.

Are you referring to "MacBook Pro"? What else are they supposed to call it?

Just saying that it's misleading because there are professionals used to and needing practical usage of USB devices, SD cards, HDMI and power and tend to avoid fiddling with adapters, so ditching it all "because it's fast" or "because it's the future" does not remove that fact.

Just because Apple has the money to spend on R&D, doesn't mean they should do it. If it's not going to be profitable enough then how could that be expected? Apple answers to its shareholders and not the consumers in those regards.

Yes, that principle of functioning is one of the reasons the world is in this shithole.

I think the notion that you should be able to do everything on a laptop is a bit ridiculous.

Not needing an adapter for a monitor, power, stills camera card or USB device is not "everything" but essential stuff for practical multimedia content usage, which makes a working creative's life easier, more productive and efficient. Not sure what is difficult to understand here or what is supposed to change here if we go through all the reasons why things are the way they are or how to compensate for that.

 

[Mike Halper]

Sorry but you don't get it. We are running in circles. It's additional nuiscance and liability. x4. For $3K. Adapters loose connection and crap out. That's two more connecting points for the same port. Times four.
One of main points of using Apple products was avoiding nuiscance and issues and now one is supposed to pay premium for a product which adds nuiscance and liabilities.
Zero sense. (To me).

I could live with new 4GB GPU and 16GB. Although competition offers 32 GB and Pascal. I could live with Hdmi adapter and even SD card reader for my stills camera. No drama. I don't need the fastest notebook. I'd enjoy the new keyboard, the one from 12"MB feels great. New touch bar is very welcome. But with this USB devices adapter nonsense throwing $3K on the gigantic pile who's decision makers make my life more difficult and frustrating instead of easier and enjoyable...just doesn't make sense to me. That way I'm feeding the animal which keeps on biting me and paying more to bend over.

So maybe I'll just have to tolerate that shitty chiclet keyboard, borderline usability in UHD projects and get a used retina MBP for Prores transcoding, casual usage and some pro apps I need on a Mac. Which is kind of sad knowing what Apple used to be and could be today if some priorities were different.



Just saying that it's misleading because there are professionals used to and needing practical usage of USB devices, SD cards, HDMI and power and tend to avoid fiddling with adapters, so ditching it all "because it's fast" or "because it's the future" does not remove that fact.



Yes, that principle of functioning is one of the reasons the world is in this shithole.



Not needing an adapter for a monitor, power, stills camera card or USB device is not "everything" but essential stuff for practical multimedia content usage, which makes a working cretive's life easier, more productive and efficient. Not sure what is difficult to understand here or what is supposed to change here if we go through all the reasons why that is or how to compensate for it.

That dog crapped on the lawn. It did it because the bi-products of digestion had to end somewhere. You can watch and not step into it. It still smells and there is still crap on the lawn.

Well, I think you're making a big deal about nothing (to me). The new portable drives are starting to come out with USB-C connections and you could also get a USB to USB-C cable to avoid using the adapters. Same with a USB-C to HDMI cable. It's really not that difficult to find a way around using adapters. And I've used adapters before without issues. The only reason I could see there being an issue is if you're moving the components around while they're on, but then you probably shouldn't be doing that in the first place.

Anyway, it sounds like the new MBP isn't the computer for you. Maybe you should just buy the 2015 model so you have those ports that you want. Or go with a Razer like others have mentioned, though I've seen reviews for that Razer Blade Pro and it's not all that great, especially once you've had it for a year or so.

 

[Dermot Shane]

2 apps out of many apps doesn't mean there's proper ProRes support on Windows. It doesn't exist in Premiere Pro or Avid, which are 2 of the biggest apps in this industry, among many many others. How many people actually use Nucoda and Scratch anyway?

1) ummm you said

ProRes encoders for Windows do not render verified ProTes files that meet Apple's ProRes spec 100%

so even you agree your orignal statment is incorrect

2) who uses Scratch and Nucoda? well folks who deliver to Netflicks, YoutubeRED and Apple TV, and prefer to work on machines that do not overheat and fail renders endlessly do

 

[Björn Benckert]

My trashcan needs to go to CA to have it´s GPU´s swapped. its one of those late 2013 trashcans that has a known issue with the graphics. it glitches and freezes and crash out out to reboot etc. All in an increasing rate it seams. So I need to get something to use while that machine is gone (takes up to 5 weeks they say) and also I need another mac machine. So I was so hoping for the 27th of september and really held out to this date and then all they drop is a shitty laptop...

So not much I can do, I just put an order on the 5k iMac and figure I get some use for that machine even when my trashcan comes back with new graphics.

Is its just a bad time to order such machine or is it an extremely bad time, as I learned it´s never really a good time to order computers.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Well, I think you're making a big deal about nothing (to me). The new portable drives are starting to come out with USB-C connections and you could also get a USB to USB-C cable to avoid using the adapters. Same with a USB-C to HDMI cable. It's really not that difficult to find way around using adapters. And I've used adapters before without issues. The only reason I could see there being as issue is if you're moving the components around while they're on, but then you probably shouldn't be doing that in the first place.

Anyway, it sounds like the new MBP isn't the computer for you. Maybe you should just buy the 2015 model so you have those ports that you want. Or go with a Razer like others have mentioned, though I've seen reviews for that Razer Blade Pro and it's not all that great, especially once you've had it for a year or so.

Good point.

 

[Mike Halper]

1) ummm you said
so even you agree your orignal statment is incorrect

2) who uses Scratch and Nucoda? well folks who deliver to Netflicks, YoutubeRED and Apple TV, and prefer to work on machines that do not overheat and fail renders endlessly do

1) Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was referring to those 3rd party encoders Miraizon and the other one that are frequently referenced when someone asks how to render ProRes in Windows. And in that regard, my original statement is correct. Those renderers use ffmpeg to encode ProRes and ffmpeg doesn't do it 100% to spec. And so still, the biggest apps in this industry on Windows (Premiere Pro, Avid, Resolve) do not encode ProRes internally. To me, that makes Windows not usable for certain things like editing and color grading/finishing. VFX and graphics work I know is a different deal and those deliver in DPX, EXR, etc. anyway. All distributors I've worked with for deliverables request ProRes. None have requested DNXHD or listed them as an option in their specs. Maybe they would accept DNXHD if specifically asked, but they might have to convert it on their end, or for some other reason it's not the preferred format. I think it would look bad if you're trying to deliver a movie to a distributor, they ask for ProRes, and you have to tell them you can't deliver a ProRes file. And I would not deliver a ProRes file to a distributor that does not meet the ProRes spec 100%.

2) How many of those folks are there compared to those using Resolve, Premiere Pro, Resolve etc.? Personally, I rarely come across anyone who actually uses those apps. When someone asks about color correction it's typically regarding Resolve, Baselight, or Pablo. I know there are others, but those are the most used... not Nucoda or Scratch.

I think we're getting a little off topic here though. Bottom line is that if you need to render ProRes, a Windows system is most likely not the best solution. And being that ProRes is basically the standard for our industry right now, it makes having a Mac or at least running MacOS (i.e. Hackintosh) almost a necessity.

 

[jonathan murphy]

1) Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was referring to those 3rd party encoders Miraizon and the other one that are frequently referenced when someone asks how to render ProRes in Windows. And in that regard, my original statement is correct. Those renderers use ffmpeg to encode ProRes and ffmpeg doesn't do it 100% to spec. And so still, the biggest apps in this industry on Windows (Premiere Pro, Avid, Resolve) do not encode ProRes internally. To me, that makes Windows not usable for certain things like editing and color grading/finishing. VFX and graphics work I know is a different deal and those deliver in DPX, EXR, etc. anyway. All distributors I've worked with for deliverables request ProRes. None have requested DNXHD or listed them as an option in their specs. Maybe they would accept DNXHD if specifically asked, but they might have to convert it on their end, or for some other reason it's not the preferred format. I think it would look bad if you're trying to deliver a movie to a distributor, they ask for ProRes, and you have to tell them you can't deliver a ProRes file. And I would not deliver a ProRes file to a distributor that does not meet the ProRes spec 100%.

2) How many of those folks are there compared to those using Resolve, Premiere Pro, Resolve etc.? Personally, I rarely come across anyone who actually uses those apps. When someone asks about color correction it's typically regarding Resolve, Baselight, or Pablo. I know there are others, but those are the most used... not Nucoda or Scratch.

I think we're getting a little off topic here though. Bottom line is that if you need to render ProRes, a Windows system is most likely not the best solution. And being that ProRes is basically the standard for our industry right now, it makes having a Mac or at least running MacOS (i.e. Hackintosh) almost a necessity.

You are correct in that you will need at least one mac..but if you use the apps out there like resolve, You can have a mac mini in the network and then rely on a much faster newer tech Windows/linux machine to do all of the heavy lifting. So it is correct that you would need at least one mac... but not a mac that needs to be CURRENT or CUTTING EDGE. It really takes the pressure off in my opinion and frees you up to really have a robust setup. Obviously if you don't use resolve or other similar programs then you are f*****. I use resolve and have no issues here...but i will say that I migrated to resolve for this kind of flexibility. It has been wonderful.


When it takes 4 or more to release something new or fresh (and then it still doesn't hit the pro mark) and thats what you rely on for your business...that in my opinion is a bigger problem than prores and should require "workarounds" to get what you need. Computer tech moves too fast for that. Camera tech moves too fast for that.