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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Scarlet Upgrade Program

John Brennick said:
How much of a difference would it make for you guys if the Scarlet Dragon was not upgradeable to Epic Dragon and would that affect your decision? Thats the only reason why I think I'm going to lean towards Epic. Plus I keep going and watching the reels and films shot with Epic and my God... Those images are still so stunning.
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Remember that two of the main differences between the Scarlet and Epic have been frame rates (former maxes out at 24p 4K, the other can do 120p at 5K) and that the Epic has a slightly less muddy image (debatable by some).

Scarlet-D will get *at least* 60p at 5K. Basically, the debate breaks down to these points:

1.) Will +3 stops of dynamic range (Scarlet-D), or higher frame rates (Epic-MX) for your upcoming projects?
2.) What do you think will bring in more revenue for the line of video work you're in?
3.) Want the secondary upgrade path from Epic-MX to Epic-D, or will you be fine with the limits of Scarlet-D if RED says tomorrow that there won't be a path from Scarlet-D to Epic-D?
 
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Robert L. Mickles said:
That is not the full final specs. It's guaranteed to do 5K at 60fps but they're not sure what its capable of at 6K yet. At the very least I'm
sure that there will be some type of 6K mode for stills and time lapses. But we all are praying for 6K at 24fps, which seems very possible.
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Robert I hope you end up being right about this BUT From a brief discussion Phil Holland had with Jarred at NAB here is what he stated the answers were:

First up an answer to a few questions out there. I caught Jarred in between probably 15 different meetings, but I did get some important questions answered.

Q: Will Scarlet Dragon have any 6K functionality?
A: Nope. Scarlet Dragon records at 5K at up to 60 frames per second.

Q: There were talks about a 5.5K resolution on Dragon to essentially be a similar size to the Mysterium-X's full sensor size.
A: In progress. Also, Red is investigating on how to allow the shooter to set their own custom resolutions.

Q: Will Dragon have HDRx or not?
A: Looks like it will be in there as of 1:43am 4/10/2013.

Q: In the Dragon cameras or upgraded cameras do we get the new DSMC FAN 2.0?
A: Nope. That is an optional upgrade for those who desire it.


Complete thread can be found here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97944-Phil-s-NAB-Journal
 
dennys bisogno said:
Robert I hope you end up being right about this BUT From a brief discussion Phil Holland had with Jarred at NAB here is what he stated the answers were:

First up an answer to a few questions out there. I caught Jarred in between probably 15 different meetings, but I did get some important questions answered.

Q: Will Scarlet Dragon have any 6K functionality?
A: Nope. Scarlet Dragon records at 5K at up to 60 frames per second.

Q: There were talks about a 5.5K resolution on Dragon to essentially be a similar size to the Mysterium-X's full sensor size.
A: In progress. Also, Red is investigating on how to allow the shooter to set their own custom resolutions.

Q: Will Dragon have HDRx or not?
A: Looks like it will be in there as of 1:43am 4/10/2013.

Q: In the Dragon cameras or upgraded cameras do we get the new DSMC FAN 2.0?
A: Nope. That is an optional upgrade for those who desire it.


Complete thread can be found here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97944-Phil-s-NAB-Journal
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I'm not holding my breath but there is a glimmer as at the end of last year Scarlet dragon was said not to be happening by Jarred, and an epic upgrade plan was our only hope.
 
The more I think about it the more an Epic upgrade seems more logical atm. Then in a year or so, after the bugs get worked out of Dragon I can upgrade again, at perhaps a slightly lesser cost.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
The more I think about it the more an Epic upgrade seems more logical atm. Then in a year or so, after the bugs get worked out of Dragon I can upgrade again, at perhaps a slightly lesser cost.
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I'm leaning this way too, though I think we will be in the minority. To be honest I find it odd that they'd price it this way - as it makes the route via Epic less appealing.

I'd have thought they'd price the Epic stepping stone lower as it would a) bring in more revenue eventually, b) relax constraints somewhat on Dragon asics and c) ensure that more people are on the upgrade path and don't end up fretting about Scarlet Dragon being a dead end a few years down the line.

But I suppose they must have thought things through and have good reasons for their pricing strategy.
 
Scott C said:
That is confirmed to be the case. If you want to go all the way you have to start via option 1. Option 2 locks you in to Scarlet-D.
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Guys, nothing is ever completely locked with RED (and they just proved it again this week with the NAB last minute SCARLET-D rebirth) :

"Everything in life changes... including camera specs and delivery dates..."

(count on it)
 
I wouldn't be hanging around with an Epic unless it has Dragon for long and too get there will cost 19k plus time.

So bearing that in mind sort a wondering with new Dragon Epic being 24K . Sell a Scarlet brian for 4-5k... ish then ( if after an Dragon Epic) just buy it new, no change over issues, get new warranties etc. Sure may take a small loss but I wouldn't be suffering the upgrade delays & waiting list issues blah, blah.

Fortunately for me don't need or want Epic Dragon....5K is more than enough in commercial television............ Scarlet Dragon is where it is at.......or even existing Scarlet for that matter.
 
Mike Garrick said:
...So bearing that in mind sort a wondering with new Dragon Epic being 24K . Sell a Scarlet brian for 4-5k... ish then ( if after an Dragon Epic) just buy it new, no change over issues, get new warranties etc. Sure may take a small loss but I wouldn't be suffering the upgrade delays & waiting list issues blah, blah...
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Just when I thought I was closing in on a decision...! Good points.
 
As long as Scarlet Dragon approached 100fps at 4K it will be a no brainer for me, though I suspect 4K will be closer to 75fps and 3K 100fps. I think with 60fps at 5K the Scarlet will be much more aggressive competition, and will genuinely be seen as a viable alternative to the Epic where as it seems to sit in a bit of limbo among the camera community at the moment.

Besides slightly less FOV, a 5K Scarlet Dragon should in theory be able to produce a far superior image (not taking into account non-camera production value, ie: lights and sets) to that of Promethius and the Hobbit. With 100fps at 4K (and the motion mount if that's your thing) the Scarlet Dragon should even outshine the F55.
 
I'm sorry, I really tried to find out more about this but do not find this product or option:
"new Dragon Epic being 24K"

All I see is a 17.5k Epic + 9.5k Dragon Upgrade = 27k
Or a new Dragon Epic = 29k

Where is the 24k Dragon Epic?
 
John Waldorff said:
I'm sorry, I really tried to find out more about this but do not find this product or option:
"new Dragon Epic being 24K"

All I see is a 17.5k Epic + 9.5k Dragon Upgrade = 27k
Or a new Dragon Epic = 29k

Where is the 24k Dragon Epic?
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An Epic Dragon M is all that is available at the moment for 29000, when released a non M Epic Dragon is stated to be 24000
 
Currently Epic M Dragon is listed on RED.com for 29K. Epic M's are 5K more than normal Epics........ hence 24K.

Daniel beat me to it. ; )
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
How soon will Scarlet owners be able to upgrade to an Epic X? I assume this could happen as soon as next week since the Epic Xs are so readily available? I know I'd like to upgrade within the month if possible. Thanks in advance for your reply!
-Ryan
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It hasn't been mentioned yet how the upgrade to Epic X will be done - ie: an internal component update or a simple swap of the bodies (I think this is more likely) but there hasn't been any information on the process. Preorders are opening tomorrow (US time) so hopefully we'll know more then.
 
Jarred Land said:
Epic-X Dragon will be $24,000.

There will not be a NAB film shot on DRAGON this year. We had to make new ASICS for the Dragon remember and those literally just came in, and we are finishing off the firmware now.

The Color Science and sensor calibration with a sensor with this much latitude is substantially more difficult to get perfect.. and we didn't have it complete in time to shoot something before the show.
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Actually, the $24K price is not an inference. It was stated by Jarred in this thread:http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Upgrade-Program-begins&p=1181128#post1181128
 
I knew I saw that price somewhere but there's been sooooooo many threads this week to follow .... thanks for the link
 
Daniel Pearson said:
Besides slightly less FOV, a 5K Scarlet Dragon should in theory be able to produce a far superior image (not taking into account non-camera production value, ie: lights and sets) to that of Promethius and the Hobbit. With 100fps at 4K (and the motion mount if that's your thing) the Scarlet Dragon should even outshine the F55.
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This is a really important point to consider .......Scarlet Dragon upgrade with motion mount can outperform the F55 for 13.5K less....ish. ( except in "off speed") .
 
Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Jarred did say they they weren't sure on the final specs earlier this week. Don't think scarlet upgrades are due to start for a while anyway, suspect the dragon routes more important to be in the queue early so could pull the trigger on that then switch later?
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I totally hear you and agree, but I dont want to be that guy let out in the cold just because I didnt purchase ASAP. I know the ScaRlet system was first come first server, and we all know how that went when MOST of us Scarlet buyers were without LCDs and SideHandles for weeks and sometimes months ;)
 
John Wee said:
So how much does a new "Scarlet Dragon" cost for a new customer to purchase ?
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We find out tomorrow (after midnight PST tonight?)... If it's close to $9500 (within ~33%?) meltdowns will ensue. I imagine it'll be closer to $17.5k, but I've got my popcorn ready just in case.
 
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