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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is Helium the next sensor after Dragon?

Jagger Christian said:
You know what I learned today? That Jarred Land is a man of his word! Jarred even let me hold his "Ranger" for at least a full minute. None of this 10 seconds stuff! Everything was going fine until some dude Photo Bombed us at RED Studios Hollywood. They'll let anybody on that lot these days...sheesh!

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Ha! boys´n toyzs
 
Nick Morrison said:
Isnt 6.5K approx S35 on Helium?

If 8K Helium is approx same size as 6K Dragon (both are S35+ sensors).

Then stands to reason 6.5K Helium would be equivalent to 5K Dragon for S35.

Which is why I think Epic-W will be 6.5K
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If the Epic-W is 6.5K there is not much of a reason for us MG owners to pay for a "Bentley Suite" price to upgrade when you can currently record 6144 x 3160. Sure from what I saw the footage from the Helium looks fantastic, but the current Weapons shoot at cleaner blacks then the older dragons, and it looks like Helium is a bit better then that. Sure that's a "side-wise" upgrade as far as specs but not for one's wallet, especially since people are still waiting for their cameras.

Still we're guessing... and wishing until October. But if EpicW tops out at 8k 48p then that's just perfect for me! Although 7K would justify an upgrade too. No matter Red will continue to knock my socks off with whatever they do!
 
It's gonna get weird in the Red lineup with more choices I think. I know some people like it, but I kinda liked the simplicity of Little Brother, Big Brother, Big Brother with a lighter suit.
 
Chris Kennedy said:
You wouldn't rather wish for Helium to just be 8k for EpicW?
That's what I'm crossing my fingers for
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I wish for more options and to be able to shoot S35 with 2X anamorphic lenses without having to crop them. So 24.9x18.7mm would be optimal. I don't care if it's 6.5 or 8 K's I just wish the sensor size would be more compatible with traditional motion picture lenses.

Pat
 
Nick Morrison said:
Are you sure about that? I thought it was a smaller cut. If not....interesting.
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Actually he is right. It took me some doing to find this again, but this is what Jarred told NoFilmSchool in this article

"NFS: You’ve mentioned that RAVEN is a physically smaller (4.5K) cut of the DRAGON sensor, is that the same with SCARLET-W, or is it similar to the original SCARLET that had 5K M-X sensors that weren’t up to the highest spec but worked for 4K and lower resolutions?

JL: SCARLET-W uses the same sensor as the 6K DRAGON, but only has an active 5K image area. We are the only company other than Sony in this market that designs both our own ASICs and sensors, so we can leverage yields in the manufacturing process to accommodate an array of products in different price points that all share the same DNA."
 
Milano Questa said:
Raven has the same 6K sensor, but with a smaller active sensor area.
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Not correct. 4.5K RAVEN sensor is just that, a 4.5K DRAGON sensor. Not 4.5K active array of 6K DRAGON.

Matthew Quinn said:
What I want to know is this.. I have an epic dragon sitting here. All I want is to upgrade the brain to weapon mg. no extras..(keep the case, the olpfs, the top handle, base expander, xl mod, sidekick).. Upgraded before nab 2015.. Would this ever be a possibility?
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Mmmm, not exactly.

Jarek Zabczynski said:
It's gonna get weird in the Red lineup with more choices I think. I know some people like it, but I kinda liked the simplicity of Little Brother, Big Brother, Big Brother with a lighter suit.
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As Jarred and I have both posted, expect us to try to make the lineup less confusing than more so. There may be some overlap, but - in the end - we want it to be clear A v B v C, etc. This would include upgrade and existing customer loyalty options...
 
Brent@RED said:
Not correct. 4.5K RAVEN sensor is just that, a 4.5K DRAGON sensor. Not 4.5K active array of 6K DRAGON
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Interesting. Apparently NFS got it wrong. Good to know what is going on.
 
Hehe thx for the reply Brent. I guess I'll have to wait like everyone else. I'm just kinda torn, I HAD considered just selling my epic, and getting another SW. But worried my epics value will continue to lessen. Hmmm so hard to choose sometimes hah!
 
Matthew Quinn said:
Hehe thx for the reply Brent. I guess I'll have to wait like everyone else. I'm just kinda torn, I HAD considered just selling my epic, and getting another SW. But worried my epics value will continue to lessen. Hmmm so hard to choose sometimes hah!
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While you still have both, how about an ISO comparison of Epic Dragon vs Scarlet-W with the same OLPF, at lowest 24fps compression and at same 24fps compression? Both 100% crop comparisons and ED 6K -> 4K downscale vs SW 5K -> 4K downscale ... curious about the stuff I'm reading about how much cleaner DSMC2 is.
 
Scot Yount said:
Interesting. Apparently NFS got it wrong. Good to know what is going on.
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How do you figure? They are saying the same thing as me: "You’ve mentioned that RAVEN is a physically smaller (4.5K) cut of the DRAGON sensor".

Matthew Quinn said:
Hehe thx for the reply Brent. I guess I'll have to wait like everyone else. I'm just kinda torn, I HAD considered just selling my epic, and getting another SW. But worried my epics value will continue to lessen. Hmmm so hard to choose sometimes hah!
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If I was an EPIC owner, I would think twice about selling my EPIC in advance of the October announcements Jarred has hinted at.
 
Brent@RED said:
How do you figure? They are saying the same thing as me: "You’ve mentioned that RAVEN is a physically smaller (4.5K) cut of the DRAGON sensor".
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I am referring to their quote of Jarred. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

Scot Yount said:
Actually he is right. It took me some doing to find this again, but this is what Jarred told NoFilmSchool in this article

JL: SCARLET-W uses the same sensor as the 6K DRAGON, but only has an active 5K image area. We are the only company other than Sony in this market that designs both our own ASICs and sensors, so we can leverage yields in the manufacturing process to accommodate an array of products in different price points that all share the same DNA."
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Akin A said:
While you still have both, how about an ISO comparison of Epic Dragon vs Scarlet-W with the same OLPF, at lowest 24fps compression and at same 24fps compression? Both 100% crop comparisons and ED 6K -> 4K downscale vs SW 5K -> 4K downscale ... curious about the stuff I'm reading about how much cleaner DSMC2 is.
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I can say that based on the overall shooting experience, SW wins but I'll do a proper test when the kids go back to school, I just got done working my ass off all summer. Gonna hit the beach for a few days
 
Whit is a special edition I believe, or you may be able to pay s premium for special colors, just a guess
 
Guessing is fun, though we should have the scoop pretty soon. FWIW, I'd be surprised to see any upgrade to Helium for Raven bodies, cost/benefit ratio is kind of slim.

I would also note that for many productions there are already too many Ks of data to deal with, and holding focus on a bigger sensor target more challenging for many genres. I think a 6K Helium cut for the lower cost models would be a good balance, and 6K should be enough supersampling to make tight UHD/4K. Obviously the 8K Helium cut is the logical size for many people as it supports most S35/APS-C glass and would be ready for 8K production calls when they start happening beyond the .01% level.

A VV Helium cut is a very attractive format, but I don't expect to see that anytime soon - mostly because I don't think even the CF Weapon boards can handle it. I'll be happy to be wrong, but for VV I think it will still be Dragon for a while.

Refocusing the whole lineup sounds good. The RedUser regulars are only a portion of the community that rents and uses RED cameras. If they feel out of their depth choosing the right model - that's not helping.

Cheers - #19
 
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