HYDROGEN preorders...

[Eric Lange]

Someone could create an ERC-20 token called RED and in the whitepaper state the funds raised in the ICO will be used to fund worthy Red related projects. Then Eric, Wayne etc. can dust off their ideas and put them into production. Would $100 million be sufficient?

I could do a lot with $100M but I could probably do even more with less ;-)

Doing more with less is still always important IMO, (don't squander resources) and have entities that are self sustaining/first more or less (proven in some way) and then further capitalization for planned scalability.

I really believe in development of core capabilities even if the core product falls flat you still have a very viable business that can still roll out useful things and keep going and keep playing the game.

Persistence is key as well as longevity. Best to plan for that from the start.

Entirely depends what sand pit you are playing in...

 

[dillont]

lol...

So, you aren't interested in .H4V? Just curious.

 

[H Dewey]

That was my thinking also that it might be there could be certain RED / HYDROGEN products that could only be bought using RED Tokens...

...

On the one hand I can see your thinking... that limiting purchases to tokens could create more H-1 customers so they could get the tokens. But that might alienate more people than it would draw in. I know I would not like to be excluded in that way.

Might work for special viewings or something, like a sneak peek of a newly released movie on RED Channel available to RED Token holders? But made available to all after the special showings.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Someone could create an ERC-20 token called RED and in the whitepaper state the funds raised in the ICO will be used to fund worthy Red related projects. Then Eric, Wayne etc. can dust off their ideas and put them into production. Would $100 million be sufficient?

Jim, a Eric's 20 token

I'll tell you the truth, I haven't even been able to read all the posts of the thread let alone start a highend business (I read the posts addressed to me, if I can find them sometimes). I'm supposed to have filled out my disability support application, which I've been too sick to get to for years as useless types let me fall through the cracks. They're supposed to have complaint systems for compliance, but you have to well enough to do that. I drained enough of my energy trying to complain about the discriminatory scam a telco was using to actively claim there was no broadband for my previous residence, when there was, just hidden behind their profit wall. A duplicate database scam, where they have your details registered in the old database but made a new database which you couldn't get on without being a customer of a costly plan. For many years I would occasionally spend a long time figuring out a provider and then trying to get on only to be told that my line was unsuitable, even though I had the line fixed up to high quality. I was told eventually, it was really this database thing that was causing the feedback that it was unsuitable.
Nobody had bother to tell me the unsuitable thing was to do with a listing database. The normal official database was useless too, returning my address as even 3000km away. Nothing like going business over here. I say jail time, this must have effected hundreds of thousands of people. Anyway, the paper work arrived late and I'm supposed to get it ready for the doctor's today, but I haven't been able to start. So I've got sonething like an extra $2kAU Australian in extra expenses per month to stop me getting bed ridden. I'm currently recovering over the last 2 days or so, from feelling well enough to finally rent a steam cleaner to clean my lounge and actually doing it (and the old one getting sold and the top and sides of the sofa bed etc) and totally trashed in pain and agony m, shaking from that. But they would have charged me something like $500AU for that. Pretty shit when I should be earning $1000 an hour minimum without any of the business plans that have been interfered with, you can say $1m a minute for that. So stuff them. The finger raisers for their own leisure that could lift it to help anybody that doesn't please them, who rather root your plans to help people. Self entitled people.

I used to be do it all myself, work 2-3 days straight. But I would need a suite of support staff, but I could easily dish out and monitor the development of stuff. It's thousands of technologies. But even the simplest is too costly and difficult to do on my own without the cash to hire the staff. Man, some guys got an old very loud refrigerated truck outside here, he's been leaving the door open and the diesel's been kicking up to run the freezer more.

Anyway, I can't remember exactly what I was going to say with that thing running. But even Red is not big enough to do the things I want to do. 100m doesn't buy much. You have to make a thousand bridges for the price of one bridge. As far as new mass market technology introduction (the better the cheaper to get market penetration) you have to be pretty frugal with $100million in hi-technology. There was a guy with a 100 million who set out and made the trendiest best little smart phone, the neonode. Within X years they had to close up. 100m wasn't enough. Another 100 millionaire started Ubuntu up, they still haven't taken over desktop OS. Windows xp was something like over 100 man years to develop. Let's say $20 million for a business already streamnlined to do it, plus maybe another $20 million and marketing/distribution, maybe $300million+ in today's terms. Which means you could send $3 billion to try to outdo them and get market penetration because things are already done and dusted. However, I would like to think I could get a new OS in and accepted for $10 million, but the patent fees might get another 10.
So you see it's not as cheap as people think. However badges you could start in the thousands. But for a software business, I have strategies to do it a lot cheaper and build up.

It's not all bleak, $100 million is nothing to be sneezed at, but it isn't a steak dinner either.

Last night I was thinking of a new way to do computer circuites which is like some of my old schemes mixed together. I could get a get a 3D printer and start experimenting. But I walked out saying It's far too ambitious. But so tantalising close. It's a complete paradigm shift that applies to many technologies.

After being around for a while, trustworthy business people are a must. You can't really run something to benefit other people with untrustworthy people, and business is full of them. Even if they can con themselves into thinking their brand is trustworthy, they are frivolously willing to compromise things for themselves. When it looked like my health was rapidly going down hill, I was thinking of leaving my stuff to someone to administer a charitable business based on it. But the three people I had in mind acted like self seeking dunder heads. So they end up with a fraction of what they could have dobe.

So yeah, (ironically) good idea, bring it on. I could do something with $100 million.

I was actually thinking to do a design of the pocket cameras and phones and approach somebody like Nokia to do a deal. Something you can hold like a pro is better than most phones around. A 1/1.1 inch sensor would be nice (around s16).

Actually, the auto stereoscopic cinema technology would be perfect, that could be co developed with somebody like Imax, as it also includes better cinema designs, and they developed cinema layouts used in a number of conventional cinemas. I wanted to double cinema net profits if possible. Double should be easy for cinemas that are not already full and that have enough people around. A must see experience. It's potentially a real shift in paradigm.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Eric is right. If you are in the back room with best technology rather than selling and marketing hardware to the public it is a lot chedier. Because with better technogy business partners/licensors can find you by just reading srticles about it. But if you want to make better direction by doing the end product costs go up. You are then we to control how it's used for the best benefit to help people, and expand. Really it is easier not to do the whole front end thing. One thing I have in mind d is to invest in design and under license specify limitations orientated against misuse. When you offer the best value or best technology designs, then such things don't matter so much, as companies are likely to make good profit signing up anyway.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Indeed... (just leave Stanley Kubrick's eyebrows out of it this time lol (cough cough Mr WM).

Didn't the Chinese launch an orbiting lunar satellite a couple of years ago that shows aerial reconnaissance / satellite imagery of the Lunar Landing sites from Apollo as well as the effects of disturbed soil from the Lunar rovers?

Lol Eric. I was thinking yesterday, wouldn't it be good if you could book the Hubble and point it at the luna sites . I've wanted to get hands on booking time of some orbiting telescope in times past to show proof they are there. But have they got any bookable cube sats or anything with high enough magnification. I've actually got a new ground based telescope design I wanted to try on this as a initial marketing ploy (to sort through atmosphere effects). But lucky imaging with existing telescopes likely would make it unpopular.

Of course, if such a conspiracy existed since they would have probably flown up to stage it anyway (remember the late 60's electromagnetic sail technology implementation gap paradox, and the reported strong EM effects in so called encounters, and unrealistic behaviour). So such pictures have limited use, but please present to me a 3D detailed map of themwhrb you get it (ykwim). I'm eager to show how true it is from an historical viewpoint. We both have archeological perspectives.

 

[Kevin T]

So, you aren't interested in .H4V? Just curious.

Very much interested in it, but my main reason is the 2D capability. I jumped all over this the first few days. I travel for fun to some very remote and off the beaten path locations, carrying a big 35mm camera is a PITA. I was in Myanmar for 3 weeks, one of the cities Mrauk-U only sees about 4K tourists a year.

While not in the video industry for the most part one of my main hobbies is Home Theaters and Very High end 2ch audio. Having worked CES when 3D was first making its mark I got to see a no glasses display, it was interesting but lacked clarity big time.

I have high hopes and little doubt that the .H4V tech and displays will be very mind blowing. The only down side I see is how long to get the tech in the hands of the masses as for a long time I think the only people that will be enjoying it will be those of us with these phones and friends.

Really hope its in my hands as I would love to be the first to get video of Machu Picchu this July and might be in Northern India and Nepal this fall, not sure yet

 

[Wayne Morellini]

You guys are making my head hurt and I mine ETH .... I really dont see this as a good idea

Lets get back to phone specs and guessing how good 2D camera is going to be as that is what is important to me

The problem with that was we did but nothing new came through. There should have been demo phones out by now and footage examples 6 months ago, to placate people and wet their appetites, even if the samples are transcoded into high bit rate h264, to hide the original codec from scrutiny until released.

I'm hoping for a module with 18+ stops, and 16.5 stops from the phone sensor. I think the module may just be a generation ahead of monstro with this delay. Jim did say they were ahead of time on something a long time ago. So, I'm thinking sensor, as he would have started chatting with everything coming down the pipe. The sensor is one thing they would change though and wait fot. This indicates the phone sensor might be Red related. It could even be the processor, but if it is just a plain 835, I don't think so.

 

[Phil Holland]

The problem with that was we did but nothing new came through. There should have been demo phones out by now and footage examples 6 months ago, to placate people and wet their appetites, even if the samples are transcoded into high bit rate h264, to hide the original codec from scrutiny until released.

I'm hoping for a module with 18+ stops, and 16.5 stops from the phone sensor. I think the module may just be a generation ahead of monstro with this delay. Jim did say they were ahead of time on something a long time ago. So, I'm thinking sensor, as he would have started chatting with everything coming down the pipe. The sensor is one thing they would change though and wait fot. This indicates the phone sensor might be Red related. It could even be the processor, but if it is just a plain 835, I don't think so.

Your assumptions are in this case wonderfully charming.

And there are demo phones out there.

Crypto

On a completely personal and industry related note, nothing has truly infuriated me like the the Kodak "branded" and strategy behind Kashminer and KodakCoin. And while I'm certain better efforts can be put forth on this front, especially from the brighter minds in this industry, I would hope sincerely that RED (and any other camera manufacturer) won't and doesn't need to get into this, at least this way.


On topic.

NAB is soon (about two weeks away). Shortly thereafter Cine Gear, late May/early June. RED has a larger presence at Cine Gear and strategically I don't think it would shock anybody that around that time we'll see RED Hydrogen One represented in some way. And likely around this time the hinted at Hydrogen One Day that Jim mentioned.


An interesting thing is going on right now in our industry outside of camera tech, but related more closely to future display technology. Light field is making some waves while shedding off a great deal of the marketing hype. Similar to some characteristics of VR it's offering multiple focal planes that the user can look too (especially for headsets). The conversation (and behind closed door war/discussion) of a directed and deliberate experience comes back into play yet again. The argument/discussion (especially for narrative content) over an interactable experience and focused creator driven experience is pretty lively right now behind closed doors. We just discussed this at the ASC a bit even. I think there's a bigger picture for .H4V and it's in relationship to some of this.

 

[dillont]

This is what my gut has been telling me, and I'm super super excited to see what's going to be announced. Meanwhile, I'm reinvesting in my PC resources, including my GFX card, and 3D applications.

"Lightfield/holography" is going to completely upend narrative filmmaking. It, in my humble opinion, will be what VR was imagined to be in the 70's; and yeah, the technology is here. The first public sample of it was released by google; it's called "Welcome to Lightfields" and you can download the free app on any VR headset. I had tears in my eyes sampling some of the scenes/content. These were only pictures - frozen moments in time. Hmm, it feels inappropriate to call them pictures now.... because they're not.

I suspect that once people realize that H4V can be viewed in a VR headset and viewed in a Lightfield like way, it will completely knock everyone down. This will change the world.

An interesting thing is going on right now in our industry outside of camera tech, but related more closely to future display technology. Light field is making some waves while shedding off a great deal of the marketing hype. Similar to some characteristics of VR it's offering multiple focal planes that the user can look too (especially for headsets). The conversation (and behind closed door war/discussion) of a directed and deliberate experience comes back into play yet again. The argument/discussion (especially for narrative content) over an interactable experience and focused creator driven experience is pretty lively right now behind closed doors. We just discussed this at the ASC a bit even. I think there's a bigger picture for .H4V and it's in relationship to some of this.

 

[John Chambers]

Sorry to be negative, but I don't see anything requiring the wearing of glasses or headsets to ever be accepted by the mass entertainment market (as in watching TV, going to movies etc.).

I believed that with the last attempt to get everyone to buy 3D TVs and I still think it will be the case even when VR headsets with decent resolution start to become affordable. For gaming and specialist applications there will be take up but not for mass market entertainment.

That's why I'm so excited about Hydrogen. It's the first time I've thought a 3D technology would actually work well and be accepted by everyone who sees it. They will all want it in the hands and in their homes and they won't have to sit there with a contraption on their head cutting them off from their surroundings.

 

[Tim Squires]

They will all want it in the hands and in their homes and they won't have to sit there with a contraption on their head cutting them off from their surroundings.

Absolutely.
And it will be interesting to see how this mass participation develops - there is no doubt that Red will maintain a place at top table for content producers, those in the industry and enthusiasts (me) but one might speculate as to who will be at the forefront of the “consumer” movement. Red (+/- partner)? Sony/Samsung/Apple? A new player? It will be particularly fascinating to see how the “standards” develop - a “betamax in 3d” scenario? Will standards be a collaborative & cooperative effort from this point or will various proposals and implementations emerge in competition?

In ten years time I’m guessing we will be looking back at our Hydrogens with a sentimental fondness - possibly with a glint in the eye as we wonder just how a low resolution small screen phone ever started such a revolution...

 

[H Dewey]

You guys are making my head hurt and I mine ETH .... I really dont see this as a good idea

Lets get back to phone specs and guessing how good 2D camera is going to be as that is what is important to me

On a completely personal and industry related note, nothing has truly infuriated me like the the Kodak "branded" and strategy behind Kashminer and KodakCoin. And while I'm certain better efforts can be put forth on this front, especially from the brighter minds in this industry, I would hope sincerely that RED (and any other camera manufacturer) won't and doesn't need to get into this, at least this way.

....

@ Eric

Seems we are in a linear world after all. And it seems there are biases so ingrained against Cryptos that our spitballing has been dismissed out of hand with no reason given against other than personal opinion.

In the eyes of some we are way ahead of our time. In the eyes of others I'm sure they think we are way behind the times.

Anyway, we got it out there.

Cheers

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Phil. I meant review demo phones.

John, so you want an Eyephone (see the Futurama episode)?

 

[Prabesh Aryal]

Really hope its in my hands as I would love to be the first to get video of Machu Picchu this July and might be in Northern India and Nepal this fall, not sure yet

definitely go to Nepal and fall is the best time to be there planing on being there around the same time too haven't been back home in like 18 years...

NAB is soon (about two weeks away). Shortly thereafter Cine Gear, late May/early June. RED has a larger presence at Cine Gear and strategically I don't think it would shock anybody that around that time we'll see RED Hydrogen One represented in some way. And likely around this time the hinted at Hydrogen One Day that Jim mentioned.

I thought the Hydrogen One Day would be some time next month no?.... and thought the supply chain and carrier certification delays were really only for the non preorder phone?

Absolutely.
And it will be interesting to see how this mass participation develops - there is no doubt that Red will maintain a place at top table for content producers, those in the industry and enthusiasts (me) but one might speculate as to who will be at the forefront of the “consumer” movement. Red (+/- partner)? Sony/Samsung/Apple? A new player? It will be particularly fascinating to see how the “standards” develop - a “betamax in 3d” scenario? Will standards be a collaborative & cooperative effort from this point or will various proposals and implementations emerge in competition?.

I totaly agree with John C too and I think the others (Sony/Samsung/Apple..) are going to do something like this http://andrebergs.com/protanopia/ give the consumer the shame effect as Hydrogen would.... but at a lesser quality.... and most consumer will jump on this stuff and will be fine.... until the other company really find a real way to compete with Red... in-terms of being able to shoot and edit stereo stuff and display them in same level...and I think that will take a while lol...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Well. I got inspiration to do somethings I abandoned years ago, with some new weird technology. After some figuring out I cracked it, despite sickness and forgetting stuff. I have been thinking of various things in the last week going through my catalogue of processing technology and some new versions. I ultimately realised a way to do some of my advanced schemes simpler. Very different paradigm. I had wanted to do photonic processing before but that was complicated. I'm as happy as Eric about this.

 

[dillont]

I don't think you're being negative, but I do think you might be missing the point (please don't take this the wrong way!!!!). The point being - H4V is an entirely new medium, above and beyond 3D. It's 6DOF video, video you can move your head around and through. When you're wearing a stinky old VR HMD, you can move your head through the H4V and watch the video through a predefined volume of space. This is what lightfield is. And I suspect this is what H4V also is (just a much superior form of it). Viewing H4V through a HMD is one option. One could view H4V through a HYDROGEN, or a TABLET (with LEIA tech), or any other LEIA enabled tech). Or any HMD that has VR enabled tech.

Sorry to be negative, but I don't see anything requiring the wearing of glasses or headsets to ever be accepted by the mass entertainment market (as in watching TV, going to movies etc.).

I believed that with the last attempt to get everyone to buy 3D TVs and I still think it will be the case even when VR headsets with decent resolution start to become affordable. For gaming and specialist applications there will be take up but not for mass market entertainment.

That's why I'm so excited about Hydrogen. It's the first time I've thought a 3D technology would actually work well and be accepted by everyone who sees it. They will all want it in the hands and in their homes and they won't have to sit there with a contraption on their head cutting them off from their surroundings.

 

[John Chambers]

Phil. I meant review demo phones.

John, so you want an Eyephone (see the Futurama episode)?

Well, kind of, but that still involved having something jammed into your eyeball and hammered into your ear, so not quite like that :frown2:

 

[John Chambers]

I don't think you're being negative, but I do think you might be missing the point (please don't take this the wrong way!!!!). The point being - H4V is an entirely new medium, above and beyond 3D. It's 6DOF video, video you can move your head around and through. When you're wearing a stinky old VR HMD, you can move your head through the H4V and watch the video through a predefined volume of space. This is what lightfield is. And I suspect this is what H4V also is (just a much superior form of it). Viewing H4V through a HMD is one option. One could view H4V through a HYDROGEN, or a TABLET (with LEIA tech), or any other LEIA enabled tech). Or any HMD that has VR enabled tech.

I don't miss the point of H4V or indeed some other light field technologies, but Google is showing off a (crude) capture system you then need a VR headset to view the output from and I don't see much of that catching on. Elements of it maybe, but not that particular execution.

 

[John Chambers]

...I think the others (Sony/Samsung/Apple..) are going to do something like this http://andrebergs.com/protanopia/ give the consumer the shame effect as Hydrogen would....

I love that idea and I can only see it helping create demand for the Hydrogen/Leia revolution! Shame I can't view it on my old Nexus 5 (no gyros). I'll see if I can get my GF to download it to her iSomething later on.

It would be great (in the not too distant future) for someone to come up to me with their iPhone and go "hey, look at this amazing 3D comic I've got!" so I can pull out my H1 and go "Oh, yeah, that's pretty neat, but have you seen this?" :emote_22_yikes: